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Old 03-28-2014, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,192,722 times
Reputation: 2295

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Why does it seem impossible to discuss homosexuality and Christianity without throwing out the stereotypical insults? It just gets old.
If one wants an honest discussion, this kind of rude, obnoxious statement calling us "homophobic" is just not beneficial.
If one of your children turn out to be ... are you going to brain-wash, disapprove, condemn, threaten, or love them for who they are?

 
Old 03-28-2014, 02:06 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,593 posts, read 15,532,511 times
Reputation: 10829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
If one of your children turn out to be ... are you going to brain-wash, disapprove, condemn, threaten, or love them for who they are?
I'm taking odds over here in this corner that you will not get a direct answer to your question.
 
Old 03-28-2014, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,025,917 times
Reputation: 14068
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
I'm taking odds over here in this corner that you will not get a direct answer to your question.
Or he'll trot out the tired Christian chestnut about loving the sinner but hating the sin.
 
Old 03-28-2014, 03:53 PM
 
4,684 posts, read 6,088,746 times
Reputation: 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
Please speak for yourself and your own particular brand of Christianity. Plenty of Christian churches (including mine) don't interpret the Bible to mean that homosexuality = sin. Gay people are accepted as they were born in plenty of churches.

And how certain Christians equate the sodom and gamorrah story to being about gay people is beyone me. Quite a stretch there! (not to mention plenty of translation questions going back to the Greek regarding the few other passages that in the moder Bible, appear to be against homosexuality).
Homosexuality (being attracted to the same sex) may not be the sin, but when they act out on their sexual desires for the same sex, then it is a sin.


As for Sodom
Jude 1:6-7

New King James Version (NKJV)

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.



It was destroyed because of sexual immorality and all sort of other wickedness. The men wanted to do male gang rape which is gay and wicked.


But no matter how much you try to flip and twist it, Homosexuality is Sexual Immorality and Sexual Immorality is a sin that applies to both Gay and Straight people and that lifestyle will keep you from going to heaven.
 
Old 03-28-2014, 03:56 PM
 
1,138 posts, read 1,037,075 times
Reputation: 623
Depends. Hating gays, wanting to hurt them, condemning them to hell is homophobic and bigoted and Un - Christian. Only God can judge them, our job is to love them. And we should welcome homosexuals to come to our churches and learn the good news.

However disagreeing with homosexuality or same sex marriage is not homophobic. It's just following Christian teachings. And disagreeing is a totally different thing than hate. I actually believe we should just have Civil Unions for everybody and just drop the word '' Marriage'' from the Government all together. It would end this whole issue and the debate would be over.
 
Old 03-28-2014, 04:08 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,022,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West Coast Republican View Post

However disagreeing with homosexuality or same sex marriage is not homophobic. It's just following Christian teachings.
Please tell us when Jesus said, "It's a sin to be gay." He had ample opportunity to preach against homosexuality. One would think he would have mentioned it. The Sermon on the Mount would have been the PERFECT opportunity. What did he say? He told us to love one another.
 
Old 03-28-2014, 04:25 PM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,774,159 times
Reputation: 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by West Coast Republican View Post
Depends. Hating gays, wanting to hurt them, condemning them to hell is homophobic and bigoted and Un - Christian. Only God can judge them, our job is to love them. And we should welcome homosexuals to come to our churches and learn the good news.

However disagreeing with homosexuality or same sex marriage is not homophobic. It's just following Christian teachings. And disagreeing is a totally different thing than hate. I actually believe we should just have Civil Unions for everybody and just drop the word '' Marriage'' from the Government all together. It would end this whole issue and the debate would be over.
Can I ask a maybe somewhat naive question? What is the difference between having legally recognized homosexual marriages, with all the rights of a heterosexual one, and having equal civil unions for everyone? Homosexuals will still be married, they can go to any number of religious institution or simply declare themselves married, and it will have equal weight with any other claim to marriage. If civil unions are separate from marriage, then polygamy, gay marriage, close kin marriage, these things will all be possible, because marriage becomes a word that is only meaningful within a particular community with a common definition. We may not be ready or able to work out the legal logistics of poly civil unions, but to have a marriage would only require declaring yourself to be married. No one else has to accept your definition, but you can use it anyway...

I actually agree with you about civil unions, from a strict separation of church and state viewpoint. I don't think a pastor and a government official should be able to fill interchangeable roles. If they can, something is not appropriately separate...

I just don't understand the motivations for religious people to push for civil unions for everyone. It won't do anything to alleviate the changing definition of marriage...

-NoCapo
 
Old 03-28-2014, 04:27 PM
 
4,684 posts, read 6,088,746 times
Reputation: 3985
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Please tell us when Jesus said, "It's a sin to be gay." He had ample opportunity to preach against homosexuality. One would think he would have mentioned it. The Sermon on the Mount would have been the PERFECT opportunity. What did he say? He told us to love one another.
Jesus taught from the Torah and it specifically says 2 times that it was a sin. Why would he have to talk about something that was so obvious to them. its kinda like teaching a grown man that he must stop at a stop sign.

While we are to love one another, we are not to condone sin either. The bible speaks against sexual immorality repeatedly, how its a sin against your own body, and that it applies to everyone. Since God never once gave the green light for man on man or woman on woman sexual action it goes against the nature of what he created us for.

Why would homosexuals get a free pass on having sex with each other, but straight people would be considered sexually immoral and fornicating for sex outside of marriage. Remember Jesus didnt talk about bestiality either, but it doenst make sex with animals okay now, so we cant use the silence argument either.


Commanded by God
Genesis 2:24


24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.




Verified by Jesus
Matthew 19:4-6


4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made[a] them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’[b] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
 
Old 03-28-2014, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,873,164 times
Reputation: 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
My Native American ancestors had a saying: "A seed will not grow if the soil is not fertile."

If American Style Fundamentalist Christianity is catching on in Africa and Korea and China, then it shows those cultures are very fertile ground for American Style Fundamentalist Christianity ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
With ignorance being the key ingredient in the fertilizer

Is that what you say about everyone who disagrees with you?
 
Old 03-28-2014, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,832,457 times
Reputation: 1869
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
Can I ask a maybe somewhat naive question? What is the difference between having legally recognized homosexual marriages, with all the rights of a heterosexual one, and having equal civil unions for everyone? Homosexuals will still be married, they can go to any number of religious institution or simply declare themselves married, and it will have equal weight with any other claim to marriage. If civil unions are separate from marriage, then polygamy, gay marriage, close kin marriage, these things will all be possible, because marriage becomes a word that is only meaningful within a particular community with a common definition. We may not be ready or able to work out the legal logistics of poly civil unions, but to have a marriage would only require declaring yourself to be married. No one else has to accept your definition, but you can use it anyway...

I actually agree with you about civil unions, from a strict separation of church and state viewpoint. I don't think a pastor and a government official should be able to fill interchangeable roles. If they can, something is not appropriately separate...

I just don't understand the motivations for religious people to push for civil unions for everyone. It won't do anything to alleviate the changing definition of marriage...

-NoCapo
The point is that "marriage" is both a religious term and a civil law term. Civil law has no business in religion, so the term used in civil law should be different.
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