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You know, CR, before dismissing "Pagan" thought, you might consider the point Paul made in Romans 2:14 "(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law."
We Quakers have a thing about examining things in the Light regardless of the source.
You know, CR, before dismissing "Pagan" thought, you might consider the point Paul made in Romans 2:14 "(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law."
We Quakers have a thing about examining things in the Light regardless of the source.
If our pagan friends are following natural law, that is a good thing...as far as it goes.
But when they come to the Christianity forum to mock and undermine, that doesn't seem to fit the profile that Paul had in mind.
There actually seem to be very few Christians posting here...no reformed, no sola scripturists, no orthodox. Not what I expected at all, really.
As the threads have become increasingly about me, I'll probably dial my involvement here way down.
Besides, I have a book or two that are more important!
Dabbing my eyes here - deeply moved by the gallantry shown by Dew, Mystic et al (I'll pretend there were others as well).
And CRC, I come by my Christian knowledge honestly. I paid my dues as a Catholic in the 50s and 60s - educated (and beaten) by nuns until Grade 11 (Junior year in HS for you Yanks) and served as an altar boy for several years. I officiated at hundreds of Masses, dozens of weddings and funerals and a few Stations of the Cross.
My father was Chairman of the Catholic School Board for over a decade, overseeing a dozen primary schools and three high schools.
I have since augmented my knowledge by taking a Religious Studies course in University, marrying and hanging out with Christians and reading boards like this.
What do you know about Animism?
Ah. The former Catholic who has been inoculated against Catholicism by his grade-school experiences. You fooled me there, Trout. NOTHING in your posts gave me the slightest hint that you understand Catholicism in the least. What little you do have are the faded, 50-year-old memories of a school boy. That's not much to go on now, is it? That's okay, I don't remember much from my calculus and physics classes at Georgia Tech 35 years ago, either. Time does that to us.
I may be wrong (it won't be the first time, apparently) but my suspicion is that you really didn't know real doctrine terribly well. And to some degree, it's not your fault; you were a kid and you probably were never taught Catholicism well to begin with.
The reason is that the 60's and 70's were a TERRIBLE time for Catholic catechesis. (In the 50's you were too young to get it.) After Vatican II, all sorts of doctrinal nonsense was foisted upon the American Catholic laity by liberal nuns and priests. Vietnam, the hippies, feminists...you remember all that, right? You may have even served overseas. If so, I salute you and thank you for your service. Needless to say, the Church was caught in the storm, and let's be honest, Satan made hay while the sun was shining. So, you went to Catholic schools? Sigh. Who knows how many kids of your generation were lost due to the foolishness of Catholic religion teachers during that era?
So, I have my doubts as to whether you EVER knew your Catholic faith, and I strongly suspect that you never knew Jesus then, either. Not personally, anyway. Your story may be slightly different, but this is the pattern I have heard from countless former Catholics over the years. You left a faith you never knew for a religion that made more sense to your rational mind. Okay, I get that.
My story is the opposite. Raised in a solid Methodist home, I was led by the Lord INTO the Catholic Church while I was in college in the deep south...not exactly Catholic territory. In fact, I think I only knew one Catholic in my entire life prior to graduating from high school. But as you may have noticed from my posts, I'm a bit of a stickler for facts and data, so I read extensively before embracing Catholicism, and I haven't stopped. This is true of most converts...the more they study, the more they realize that Catholicism is true. Converts into the Church usually know far more than the cradle Catholics, and a heck of a lot more than the folks who leave with only a Catholic grade-school level understanding.
NOTHING in all my study of theology and apologetics has given me any cause for concern about a single doctrine of the Catholic Church. In fact, the deeper I go, the more I learn about how the Church's teaching all fits together like a seamless garment. Of course, that only makes sense...the Catholic Church was built by Jesus and is led by the Holy Spirit into all truth. Some people take that as arrogance. I call it assurance. Infallibility has a funny way of eliminating the problems that other Christian denominations have fallen prey to. But I digress.
My point is simply this: perhaps you are that rare individual who was thoroughly knowledgeable regarding Catholic theology, and you made the intellectual decision to reject what you knew. I say rare, because most folks our age who left the Church are largely clueless about what Catholics actually believe. And rare because most people who leave do so due to some moral issue: divorce, contraception, etc. But my bet is that you left (and remain) largely ignorant about Catholic doctrine. And I wonder what your Dad might think of your new religion.
As for animism, I know nothing beyond the working definition. There is nothing I need to know; it is a false worldview.
Ah. The former Catholic who has been inoculated against Catholicism by his grade-school experiences. You fooled me there, Trout. NOTHING in your posts gave me the slightest hint that you understand Catholicism in the least. What little you do have are the faded, 50-year-old memories of a school boy. That's not much to go on now, is it? That's okay, I don't remember much from my calculus and physics classes at Georgia Tech 35 years ago, either. Time does that to us.
I may be wrong (it won't be the first time, apparently) but my suspicion is that you really didn't know real doctrine terribly well. And to some degree, it's not your fault; you were a kid and you probably were never taught Catholicism well to begin with.
The reason is that the 60's and 70's were a TERRIBLE time for Catholic catechesis. (In the 50's you were too young to get it.) After Vatican II, all sorts of doctrinal nonsense was foisted upon the American Catholic laity by liberal nuns and priests. Vietnam, the hippies, feminists...you remember all that, right? You may have even served overseas. If so, I salute you and thank you for your service. Needless to say, the Church was caught in the storm, and let's be honest, Satan made hay while the sun was shining. So, you went to Catholic schools? Sigh. Who knows how many kids were lost due to the foolishness of Catholic religion teachers during that era?
So, I have my doubts as to whether you EVER knew your Catholic faith, and I strongly suspect that you never knew Jesus then, either. Not personally, anyway. Your story may be slightly different, but this is the pattern I have heard from countless former Catholics over the years. You left a faith you never knew for a God you never knew until you found Him elsewhere. Okay, I get that.
My story is the opposite. Raised in a solid Methodist home, I was led by the Lord INTO the Catholic Church while I was in college in the deep south...not exactly Catholic territory. In fact, I think I only knew one Catholic in my entire life prior to graduating from high school. But as you may have noticed from my posts, I'm a bit of a stickler for facts and data, so I read extensively before embracing Catholicism, and I haven't stopped. This is true of most converts...the more they study, the more they realize that Catholicism is true. Converts into the Church usually know far more than the cradle Catholics, and a heck of a lot more than the folks who leave with only a Catholic grade-school level understanding.
NOTHING in all my study of theology and apologetics has given me any cause for concern about a single doctrine of the Catholic Church. In fact, the deeper I go, the more I learn about how complete the Church's teaching really is. Of course, that only makes sense...the Catholic Church was built by Jesus and is led by the Holy Spirit into all truth. Some people take that as arrogance. I call it assurance. Infallibility has a funny way of eliminating the problems that other Christian denominations have fallen prey to. But I digress.
My point is simply this: perhaps you are that rare individual who was thoroughly knowledgeable regarding Catholic theology, and you made the intellectual decision to reject what you knew. I say rare, because most folks our age are largely clueless about what Catholics actually believe. And rare because most people who leave do so due to some moral issue: divorce, contraception, etc. But my bet is that you left (and remain) largely ignorant about Catholic doctrine.
But what do you know about Jesus?
As for animism, I know nothing beyond the working definition. There is nothing I need to know. It is a false worldview.
Ach!
The No Good Scotsman response.
I thought you said you'd done this sort of thing before?
Ach!
The No Good Scotsman response.
I thought you said you'd done this sort of thing before?
He was probably invited by those who use the "No True Scotsman" fallacy to judge their brothers and sisters in Christ. Clearly they failed to warn him that we actually FOLLOW Christ . . . not just believe things ABOUT Him.
Uh, oh. I think we were just told we're not up to snuff.
Just different from my regular forum where we tend to discuss Christian theology and history...you know, apologetics stuff.
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What little you do have are the faded, 50-year-old memories of a school boy. That's not much to go on now, is it? That's okay, I don't remember much from my calculus and physics classes at Georgia Tech 35 years ago, either. Time does that to us.
