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This is a good question. Anyone know the answer?
My assumption is that if there are such denominations then they, too, would be considered "not mainstream christian" by other denominations.
I just don't think mormonism will ever fit in. Do any christians?
It is my opinion that a segment of the Evangelical movement has co-opted the word “Christian” for itself. This definition means strict belief that the Bible, particularly the New Testament, contains the complete Gospel. It also adheres to the Nicean Trinitarian concept, and a belief that a public proclamation of accepting Jesus as savior leads to salvation. To these people, anyone who does not follow their precepts are excluded from Christianity. I don’t think the rest of the Christian fold, including Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, and others holds as rigid of views as to the definition of Christian and have a larger umbrella.
Last edited by coolcats; 01-04-2008 at 12:42 PM..
Reason: grammar
No. You don't have to be excommunicated anymore in order to leave the church. (Thanks to a federal court ruling.)
What federal court ruling would that be? I am not sure what authority the government would have in religious matters.
One does not "resign" his or her membership. Requesting to have one's name removed from the records of the Church has the same effect as excommunication; although, it is not based on disciplinary reasons. Excommunication literally means removing a person from communion, and communion means sharing mutually agreed upon doctrines.
What federal court ruling would that be? I am not sure what authority the government would have in religious matters.
One does not "resign" his or her membership. Requesting to have one's name removed from the records of the Church has the same effect as excommunication; although, it is not based on disciplinary reasons. Excommunication literally means removing a person from communion, and communion means sharing mutually agreed upon doctrines.
Oops. It appears to be an Oklahoma State Court ruling (Guinn v. Church of Christ of Collinsville). It upholds the right of individuals to resign from a church and have the church be unable to discipline them.
Yes, in fact, you can resign your membership from the church. The Mormon church did not remove me from communion, I removed myself from communion with the church. Deliberately and as a matter of conscience.
There are some ways in which the two are similar (my temple ordinances, for example, are just as nullified with resignation as with excommunication), but they are not the same thing.
dreameyes, having been on both sides of the fence, I can't help but see the dilemma facing both parties. By parties, I mean the mainstream christians and the mormons. Let me illustrate by using three doctrinal issues that substantiate the wedge between the two groups.
I think there are some liberal mainstream christian denominations that accept that the mormon church belongs in the category of mainstream christianity but I'm not sure. Maybe someone can enlighten us regarding this. The big separation comes between the mormon ideals/doctrines against those of hardline mainstream christianity. Whether there will continue to be a wedge between the mormon church and those in mainstream circles or a time where others simply throw their hands in the air and say, "all right, we give" remains to be seen. Hopefully, this may give some understanding to those who wonder what all the fuss is about. I sometimes wonder if our Savior Jesus looks down on us and shakes His head thinking, "My children, why do you make it all so difficult on yourselves?"
If I am in error on some doctrine, please set me straight. God bless....
Well can't argue with you there. Whether or not we're "mainstream" Christians or not doesn't really make a difference to me. Jesus Christ is my Savior and Redeemer and that makes me and all mormons who believe that Christians. What do semantics matter?? I guess it's just that some will never no matter what is presented to them believe mormons are Christians.
Oops. It appears to be an Oklahoma State Court ruling (Guinn v. Church of Christ of Collinsville). It upholds the right of individuals to resign from a church and have the church be unable to discipline them.
Yes, in fact, you can resign your membership from the church. The Mormon church did not remove me from communion, I removed myself from communion with the church. Deliberately and as a matter of conscience.
There are some ways in which the two are similar (my temple ordinances, for example, are just as nullified with resignation as with excommunication), but they are not the same thing.
I understand what you are saying, but I need to be clear here. Resignation is not a term used in the Church, when dealing with baptized members. You asked for your name to be removed from the records of the Church. As is always the case, your request was granted; however, in so doing, you were in fact removed from communion with the Church, and as a result, all ordinances, including baptism and any Temple ordinances are null and void. This does not mean you were disciplined for any transgression, but it does mean the process is excommunication. I have served in Bishoprics and on Stake High Councils more than once, and when we received letters requesting name removal, the process is identical to excommunication.
Unfortunately, people always associate excommunication with wrongdoing, when in fact excommunication is not necessarily the result of transgression, as in your case. The only time someone’s name is removed from the records of the Church without using the power of excommunication is in the case of an unbaptized member. There are a number of people whose names appear on the roles, because they were the children of members, who fell into inactivity and never had the children baptized. Many of these people do not even know their names are on the roles of the Church. In the case of these people, they were never in communion with the Church, in that they were never baptized, and therefore name removal is strictly administrative.
Sergeant, with all due respect, it doesn't matter what the Mormon church calls it. I denounced my membership in the Mormon church. Of course I am not in communion with it. Of course I don't have Mormon temple ordinances. Non-Mormons don't.
You can't excommunicate a non-Mormon.
(You do realize that insisting on things like this is one of the aspects of Mormonism that appears cultish to outsiders, right?)
Momtofour, I am curious how long you were a member and how active you were before you asked to have your name removed from the rolls of the church. And also Urbanlemur.
Momtofour, I am curious how long you were a member and how active you were before you asked to have your name removed from the rolls of the church. And also Urbanlemur.
I was born Mormon. Very active. Seminary graduate. Graduated from BYU. Got my endowments out in college. Married in the temple. Left the church, with my husband, when I was 30. I was never inactive until after I decided it was not The One True Church and resigned my callings. And then, I attended other churches until I found a church home.
(I'm guessing you are a Mormon. If not, that answer might be a little too slangy for you. Let me know if that's the case and I'll explain it again in English.)
I was born Mormon. Very active. Seminary graduate. Graduated from BYU. Got my endowments out in college. Married in the temple. Left the church, with my husband, when I was 30. I was never inactive until after I decided it was not The One True Church and resigned my callings. And then, I attended other churches until I found a church home.
(I'm guessing you are a Mormon. If not, that answer might be a little too slangy for you. Let me know if that's the case and I'll explain it again in English.)
I'll try to keep this brief, in the interests of not derailing the thread too much.
In a nutshell, it started when we began reading more about Mormon history. We knew there were some skeletons in the closet, but we felt confident that when we looked at the history in depth, there would be good explanations. What we found instead was issue after issue that just didn't jive with the idea that the church was The One True Church. In a period of about six weeks, I no longer believed in the First Vision as the church promotes it now, the divine origin of the Book of Mormon, the divine origin of polygamy, Joseph Smith's prophethood, etc., etc. Then I spent another two-three months trying to decide if I should stay Mormon because it was a good church. I discovered that the Mormon church didn't really fit with what I felt God would want in a church as well as other churches I found, and that I would grow more spiritually in a different church.
Luckily, DH felt the same way. So we left.
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Momtofour and Urbanlemur
