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Old 04-05-2014, 12:21 PM
 
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Someone wrote that spirit in the context of The holy spirit means personality/being. Is this right? Where in the bible does The holy spirit mean personality/being, and where does it mean something else? Thanks
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Old 04-05-2014, 12:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LailaWithTheBaloon View Post
Someone wrote that spirit in the context of The holy spirit means personality/being. Is this right? Where in the bible does The holy spirit mean personality/being, and where does it mean something else? Thanks
The term 'Holy Spirit' always refers to the third Person of the Trinity - God the Holy Spirit.

That the Holy Spirit is God is seen in Acts 5:3-4 where Peter tells Ananias that in lying to the Holy Spirit he did not lie to men, but to God.


That the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father is seen in Romans 8:27 where it is said that God (the Father) knows the mind of the Spirit.
Rom. 8:27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
The Holy Spirit has a mind which the Father knows. And the Holy Spirit intercedes for the saints. Intercession is between two parties. The Holy Spirit intercedes between God the Father and man with groanings too deep for words as per Rom. 8:26.

So it is seen that the Holy Spirit is God, but that He is distinct from the Father.


And that He is distinct from Jesus Christ who is the Second Person of the Trinity is seen in passages such as John 14:16-17 and John 16:7-15.
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Old 04-05-2014, 12:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The term 'Holy Spirit' always refers to the third Person of the Trinity.
A false dichotomy of men, who divide things into parts.
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Old 04-05-2014, 12:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LailaWithTheBaloon View Post
Someone wrote that spirit in the context of The holy spirit means personality/being. Is this right? Where in the bible does The holy spirit mean personality/being, and where does it mean something else? Thanks
Never,

In fact the "early Christian Father's" and the Churches right up until the 4th century generally believed it was God's active force and NEVER used Acts to support it being a "person"

The Catholic Encyclopedia: “Nowhere in the Old Testament do we find any clear indication of a Third Person.

Catholic theologian Fortman: “The Jews never regarded the spirit as a person; nor is there any solid evidence that any Old Testament writer held this view. ...The Holy Spirit is usually presented in the Synoptics [Gospels] and in Acts as a divine force or power.”

The New Catholic Encyclopedia: “The O.T. clearly does not envisage God’s spirit as a person ...God’s spirit is simply God’s power. If it is sometimes represented as being distinct from God, it is because the breath of Yahweh acts exteriorly.” This reference book also states: “The majority of NT texts reveal God’s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God.”

A Catholic Dictionary: “On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the spirit as a divine energy or power.” These quotes are quite surprising, even amazing, coming from Roman Catholic sources, especially since the Trinity Doctrine itself comes from Roman Catholic Theology.

The New Enlish Bible, (Catholic edition called the Oxford Study Edition), has this footnote at Joel:2:32: “The Lord’s spirit—the animating force behind the prophets”.

The Companion Bible (KJV), appendix No. 9, “The Usage of Ruach—Spirit”: “The one root idea running through all the (224) passages is invisible force…Invisible Divine power manifesting itself.”

Trinity. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly and formally a biblical belief. The Spirit is “the spirit of the God” or “the holy spirit,” in this context a synonymous term. Deity [in the Bible] is conceived not in the G[ree]k [philosophical term] of nature but rather as a level of being ... What is less clear about the Spirit [in the Bible] is His personal reality: often He is mentioned in language in which His personal reality is not explicit....The O[ld] T[estament], does not contain suggestions or foreshadowing of the trinity of persons. (e.a.)-

Dictionary of the Bible, John McKenzie, S.J., (Society of Jesuits) 1965, pp. 899
The majority of N[ew]T[estament] texts reveal God’s spirit as something, not some- one; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God. One is not justified in concluding immediately that in these passages God’s spirit is regarded as a Person; Thus, the context of the phrase ‘blasphemy against the spirit’ (Mt 11.31), shows that reference is being made to the power of God....

New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. XIII, p. 575; Vol. XIV, p. 296.
The formulation “one God in three Persons” was not solidly established, prior to the end of the 4th century...Among the Apostolic Fathers there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective [of a Trinity doctrine].- (e.a.),
The New Catholic Encyclopedia Vol. XIV (14), p. 299.


The idea of the Holy Spirit, of the Spirit of God, was derived from Judaism, and it was generally believed among the early Christians that the Spirit was especially active in the Christian church. They did not speculate about the nature of the Spirit or about its relation to God and Christ. They commonly thought of it not as an individual being or person but simply as the divine power working in the world and particularly in the church....Apparently he was usually thought of in the early days as a mere divine power or influence. Often the term was employed simply to express the presence of God among his people. As time passed the tendency grew to think of him in personal terms, as the Father and Son were thought of...by the fourth century the idea of the Spirit as a separate person was practically universal. Arthur Chusman McGiffert, A History of Christian Thought, London, New York, Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1954, pp. 111, 127.
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Old 04-05-2014, 04:39 PM
 
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Thanks, expatCA.
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Old 04-05-2014, 07:49 PM
 
4,564 posts, read 2,265,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LailaWithTheBaloon View Post
Someone wrote that spirit in the context of The holy spirit means personality/being. Is this right? Where in the bible does The holy spirit mean personality/being, and where does it mean something else? Thanks
Please notice Numbers 11 vs 16,17,25 because God's spirit is used by the neuter word ' it '.

God and Jesus are always in the masculine and never in the neuter ' it '.

Whereas in Greek grammar rules a neuter can be masculine or feminine.
Such as we can properly speak of a ship or a boat as a ' she ' even thought it is a neuter.

The KJV Bible also uses a neuter for God's spirit at Romans 8 vs 16 and 26 saying the spirit ' itself '......

Also, at Psalm 104 v 30 God's spirit is used in a possessive sense. When God sends forth his spirit.....
So, God's spirit is something [ Not someone ] which God does possess and uses.
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Old 04-05-2014, 11:31 PM
 
37,491 posts, read 25,224,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Never,

In fact the "early Christian Father's" and the Churches right up until the 4th century generally believed it was God's active force and NEVER used Acts to support it being a "person"

The Catholic Encyclopedia: “Nowhere in the Old Testament do we find any clear indication of a Third Person.

Catholic theologian Fortman: “The Jews never regarded the spirit as a person; nor is there any solid evidence that any Old Testament writer held this view. ...The Holy Spirit is usually presented in the Synoptics [Gospels] and in Acts as a divine force or power.”

The New Catholic Encyclopedia: “The O.T. clearly does not envisage God’s spirit as a person ...God’s spirit is simply God’s power. If it is sometimes represented as being distinct from God, it is because the breath of Yahweh acts exteriorly.” This reference book also states: “The majority of NT texts reveal God’s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God.”

A Catholic Dictionary: “On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the spirit as a divine energy or power.” These quotes are quite surprising, even amazing, coming from Roman Catholic sources, especially since the Trinity Doctrine itself comes from Roman Catholic Theology.

The New Enlish Bible, (Catholic edition called the Oxford Study Edition), has this footnote at Joel:2:32: “The Lord’s spirit—the animating force behind the prophets”.

The Companion Bible (KJV), appendix No. 9, “The Usage of Ruach—Spirit”: “The one root idea running through all the (224) passages is invisible force…Invisible Divine power manifesting itself.”

Trinity. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly and formally a biblical belief. The Spirit is “the spirit of the God” or “the holy spirit,” in this context a synonymous term. Deity [in the Bible] is conceived not in the G[ree]k [philosophical term] of nature but rather as a level of being ... What is less clear about the Spirit [in the Bible] is His personal reality: often He is mentioned in language in which His personal reality is not explicit....The O[ld] T[estament], does not contain suggestions or foreshadowing of the trinity of persons. (e.a.)-

Dictionary of the Bible, John McKenzie, S.J., (Society of Jesuits) 1965, pp. 899
The majority of N[ew]T[estament] texts reveal God’s spirit as something, not some- one; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God. One is not justified in concluding immediately that in these passages God’s spirit is regarded as a Person; Thus, the context of the phrase ‘blasphemy against the spirit’ (Mt 11.31), shows that reference is being made to the power of God....

New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. XIII, p. 575; Vol. XIV, p. 296.
The formulation “one God in three Persons” was not solidly established, prior to the end of the 4th century...Among the Apostolic Fathers there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective [of a Trinity doctrine].- (e.a.),
The New Catholic Encyclopedia Vol. XIV (14), p. 299.


The idea of the Holy Spirit, of the Spirit of God, was derived from Judaism, and it was generally believed among the early Christians that the Spirit was especially active in the Christian church. They did not speculate about the nature of the Spirit or about its relation to God and Christ. They commonly thought of it not as an individual being or person but simply as the divine power working in the world and particularly in the church....Apparently he was usually thought of in the early days as a mere divine power or influence. Often the term was employed simply to express the presence of God among his people. As time passed the tendency grew to think of him in personal terms, as the Father and Son were thought of...by the fourth century the idea of the Spirit as a separate person was practically universal. Arthur Chusman McGiffert, A History of Christian Thought, London, New York, Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1954, pp. 111, 127.
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:14 AM
 
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Where does the bible support the idea of The holy spirit as an own person? Thanks
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:28 AM
 
910 posts, read 1,043,029 times
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OP

Read John from chapter 14 to chapter 16. The Holy Spirit is actually the Father God. On earth three things bear witness: spirit, water and blood, in the heavens Father, word and Spirit. The Godhead can separate the three aspects and manifest them differently and together. For man, the three aspects are together until forced separation.
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:45 AM
 
650 posts, read 424,537 times
Reputation: 53
The Catholic teachings explain the Holy Spirit is the Love between the Father and the Son, distinct with unique intellect and will.

The Bible has many quotes confirming the Holy Spirit which proceeds from god also introduced when Jesus said I will send my advocate,

I'm not a scripture expert by any means although some can resurface in my mind from hearing in church and so on, so will step back and leave to some of the members who know the scripture really well.

Last edited by alexcanter; 04-06-2014 at 05:39 AM..
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