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You have the name, that is all. Your claims do not become truth if you proclaim it again and again. There is no true church institution. Even the Apostle Peter rebuked the Lord and denied Him three times. If you built a church on the foundation of a man, it is built on sand. Christ is the foundation and the rock (Dan 2:34,35+45). It is true, the Apostles and prophets founded the first church and so should it be also today.
Dear Sur,
I think Yeshua more clearly made the point in Mt 7:24, as to the rock the church is built on. One had to heed his Words to be built securely on the rock. In Revelation 19:10, Yeshua made clear again, that his testimony, of which one must heed, comes from the Spirit of God, which is the Foundation of his testimony.
As for Dan 2, 25 & 45, those verses are actually referring to the establishment of the Kingdom of God, which is not instituted until the toes "partly iron and partly of pottery" (Daniel 2:42) are crushed. The iron refers to Rome, and I suspect that according to Psalms 83, that the red clay pottery refers to Edom and his relatives, but then again, Daniel refers to the mixing of the seed of men. Rome actually established the Roman church by means of the beast with two horns like a lamb, the 7th head of the beast, Constantine, who was to deceive "those who dwell on the earth". The last remaining horns of the 8th head of the beast, one of the 7, has not all been dealt with. The Roman church/state may be near its end, but it hasn't been totally crushed at this point.
Psalms 2:8-9,"'Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance, And the very ends of the earth as Your possession. 9 'You shall break them with a rod of iron, You shall shatter them like earthenware .'
Revelation 2:27 NAS "AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father ;"
Last edited by 2ndpillar; 04-15-2014 at 09:45 AM..
thousands of religions and one is correct? or are they all wrong?
Dear andyo,
According to the brother of Yeshua, "pure undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father, to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world" (James 1:27)
I would suggest following the advice of the preacher in Ecclesiastes 12:13, "fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person."
Dear Patrick,
This explains how with the simple misinterpretation, a whole perverse set of men's traditions can be set up as to hold the seat of God, but it doesn't answer the question as to why anyone should follow this wrong path. The "rock", petra, that the church is built on is not Petros, but the revelation of the Spirit of God, that Yeshua was an anointed son of God, to Simon bar Jonas. The "Rock" of the church is the Spirit of God, which was was the foundation for the testimony of Yeshua (Rev 19:10)
Mt 16:16-19," Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. "I also say to you that you are Petros, and upon this petra I will build My church ; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
Petros means small rock, whereas petra would refer to a large foundational stone. Peter was chosen to be a shepherd, to fulfill Scripture. That Scripture was the selection of the "worthless shepherd" who would not seek the scattered, heal the broken, or sustain the one standing, but devour the flesh of the fat sheep. (Ze 11:16-17 & John 21:16)
Excellent breakdown of this passage of scripture.
To add to this, I have never come across any compelling reason to believe that the Bishop of Rome is the sole inheritor of even the tiniest fraction of authority held by Peter or any other apostle. The Bishop of Rome had the good fortune to be the religious leader in one of the two great Roman capitals, and that seems to be the only real origin of the Pope's presumed authority. Being the bishop of a politically important city makes all the difference. If anyone doubts this, consider this: Who was Rome's greatest rival for claiming supreme authority? Constantinople, the other Roman capital. Political power is nice an all, but it's got nothing to do with God-given authority.
So even if Matthew 16 said what the RCC wants it o say, it wouldn't make the Pope the rightful ruler of all Christendom anymore than the mayor of New York City is the rightful successor to the Presidency of the United States.
i think he means why does Jesus expect "the full truth" of Roman Popery from dirty rags? why would it be fine to be a Catholic layperson, but not a Protestant Preacher? wouldnt a Protestant still be saved by Jesus for believing in Jesus ("and trying")? that excuse would aplly to all denominations though, i suspect, if it applies to layCatholics.
Because Jesus promised it! You haven't been paying attention!
plus, Vizio was asking someone else, so perhaps he diidnt read whatever you posted.
I was directing my comment to Vizio, not you.Are you the new Moderator?
Last time I checked, Gabriel, Jesus hasnt brought himself around lately to teach you anything about this supposed "fullness" from the Roman Bishop and Emperor of Vatican city.
Are you trolling?
the secular academies must be recently forgetting to teach about the inconsistencies of the claims of liniage and special status from Roman Bishops. Its no wonder that the Roman Hellenic Syncretic Polythiests would persecute a rival political group if the case was that Christians were factioning under singular foreign/rival leaders in efforts to wipeout their Hellenic religious heritage. What I remember learning is that Christians were killing pagans and eachother alike, competing for religious dues and offerings. These Christians here would attempt to burn down the Temple of Zeus, these others would vandalize the statue of Caesar, these other would flay Philosophers alive, these others would disrupt Jewish festivals, these others would deny being a part of them. Who knew what was what until Constantine stepped in to have a great deal of the main Bishops decide what "universal" Christian doctrine aught to be (by musing and casting vallots over scripture and dogma). Then harshly and violently suppressing the original minority views and subsequent opposition with Government support. Yes, I dont remember any of that turning me into a Christian vassal of the Bishop at Rome.
You are welcomed home! Everybody wants to go back home.
Then why doesn't the Roman church come back home to the faith she left? Jesus and us all want her to repent and return to us. Even you are welcome back home.
If you study the history of Christianity in a secular academic environment with no bias you will end up Catholic.
Listen to Dr. Kreeft
I think you might be just as likely to end up as a non-Christian rather than a Catholic.
Having listened to the Dr. K. all the way through, his attitude - bordering on smugness too often - presents a personal, sentimentalized version of Christianity that is clearly preaching-to-the-choir material. Surely there must be better examples to offer as a challenge.
Last edited by kevxu; 04-15-2014 at 01:25 PM..
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Are you the new Moderator?
