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I would like to see the scripture that say we are okay to sin at free will, have no regrets about it after being saved and all will still be well.
Sin in the life of the believer has consequences, but loss of eternal life is not one of them. The disobedient believer is disciplined as a son as is stated in Hebrews 12:5-7. And that divine discipline can be quite intense, but the disobedient believer is still a son and cannot lose his eternal life.
What a pity that so many simply do not understand and are even antagonistic to the principle of grace.
Sin in the life of the believer has consequences, but loss of eternal life is not one of them. The disobedient believer is disciplined as a son as is stated in Hebrews 12:5-7. And that divine discipline can be quite intense, but the disobedient believer is still a son and cannot lose his eternal life.
What a pity that so many simply do not understand and are even antagonistic to the principle of grace.
Its not about understanding Grace, its about people who abuse Grace and use it as a ticket to sin at freewill.
Mike, if you decided form this day forward you are going to be a serial rapist and serial killer and die in your sins unrepentant, the bible says you will not go to heaven. You might think no real believer would become a rapist or killer, but I can say no real believer would live a life of fornication, drunkenness, or adultery, but many do.
Its not about understanding Grace, its about people who abuse Grace and use it as a ticket to sin at freewill.
Mike, if you decided form this day forward you are going to be a serial rapist and serial killer and die in your sins unrepentant, the bible says you will not go to heaven. You might think no real believer would become a rapist or killer, but I can say no real believer would live a life of fornication, drunkenness, or adultery, but many do.
It's about understanding grace. The Bible does not say that believers who continue to sin don't go to heaven. It is impossible to commit a sin that has not already been judged at the cross when Jesus bore that sin in His own body. Believers are in fact capable of sinning with the worst of unbelievers. But their sins are not the issue in the matter of eternal life. The only issue is whether or not you have trusted in the finished work of Christ on the cross in dealing with the sin problem.
Every believer in Jesus Christ has been credited with God's very own perfect righteousness and declared justified. No matter what sin or how many sins the believer commits he still is seen by God as justified by virtue of having been imputed with the perfect righteousness of God.
Hebrews 10:12 tells us that those who have been sanctified (with reference to positional sanctification in contrast with experiential sanctification) have been perfected for all time. And every believer is positionally sanctified.
If you cannot come to understand the difference between the believer's positional standing with God which is unalterable by anything the believer does, and his experiential standing with God which has to do with his spiritual life or lack thereof as a believer then you will never be able to understand that nothing the believer does can result in loss of eternal life.
Last edited by Michael Way; 04-24-2014 at 04:17 PM..
These lists apply to absolutely everyone, not only to non-Christians!
Actually, the Holy Spirit was given to indwell Christians to help them to NOT do these things.
The truth is ... with the Holy Spirit inside of us, we have NO excuse for continuing to do these things.
Christians habitually doing these sins will NOT inherit the kingdom of God: 1 Cor 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Eph 5:3-6 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Christians habitually doing these sins will NOT enter the New Jerusalem: Rev 21:27 But there shall by no means enter it (the New Jerusalem, v.10) anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. Rev 22:14-15 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Christians habitually doing these sins will incur the wrath of God: Col 3:5-6 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience …
Christians habitually doing these things are deserving of death: Rom 1:29-32 … being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death …
Christians habitually doing these sins will go into the lake of fire: Rev 21:7-8 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Who is an overcomer? ... The one who overcame as Jesus overcame! "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (Rev 3:21-22) Now it's up to you to figure out what Jesus overcame!
Last edited by Miss Blue; 04-25-2014 at 09:06 PM..
Reason: please do not use the red font..It is reserved for moderation..any other color is ok
Christians habitually doing these sins will NOT inherit the kingdom of God: 1 Cor 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also toldyou in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Eph 5:3-6 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Christians habitually doing these sins will NOT enter the New Jerusalem: Rev 21:27 But there shall by no means enter it (the New Jerusalem, v.10) anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. Rev 22:14-15 Blessedare those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Christians habitually doing these sins will incur the wrath of God: Col 3:5-6 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience …
Christians habitually doing these things are deserving of death: Rom 1:29-32 … being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness;they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,unmerciful;who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death …
Christians habitually doing these sins will go into the lake of fire: Rev 21:7-8 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Agreed, the bible doesnt contradict itself. God demands we live holy if we want to follow him and not follow the world.
These lists apply to absolutely everyone, not only to non-Christians!
Actually, the Holy Spirit was given to indwell Christians to help them to NOT do these things.
The truth is ... with the Holy Spirit inside of us, we have NO excuse for continuing to do these things.
Christians habitually doing these sins will NOT inherit the kingdom of God: 1 Cor 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Eph 5:3-6 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Christians habitually doing these sins will NOT enter the New Jerusalem: Rev 21:27 But there shall by no means enter it (the New Jerusalem, v.10) anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. Rev 22:14-15 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Christians habitually doing these sins will incur the wrath of God: Col 3:5-6 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience …
Christians habitually doing these things are deserving of death: Rom 1:29-32 … being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death …
Christians habitually doing these sins will go into the lake of fire: Rev 21:7-8 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Who is an overcomer? ... The one who overcame as Jesus overcame! "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." (Rev 3:21-22) Now it's up to you to figure out what Jesus overcame!
These are some of the usual verses which people bring up to argue that salvation can be lost. Passages which deal with inheriting the kingdom have to do with ownership within the kingdom. With rulership privileges and responsibilities in the kingdom and with eternal rewards. Those passages have nothing to do with being in the kingdom.
Revelation 21:7-8 also is not saying that the believer can lose his salvation. It had just been stated in verse 6 that the water of life was without cost. This is also stated in Revelation 22:17. Eternal life is offered to anyone who thirsts, without cost. That means there is nothing you must or can add to faith alone in Christ alone for eternal life. It means that you don't have to do anything or refrain from anything in order to merit your salvation. That is not an invitation to sin because the disobedient believer is subject to divine discipline. But he can not lose his eternal salvation.
While one view of Revelation 21:8 is that this refers to those who were never saved and is not referring to the possible loss of salvation, a different view is that this verse refers to believers who are eternally saved, but the reference to 'their part - meros' refers to their rewards and inheritance being burned up in the lake of fire.
Rev. 21:7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. 8] "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars,their part (meros - portion, share) will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
This would be in keeping with 1 Corinthians 3:15 which states that the believer is saved even though his work is burned up.
1 Cor. 3:15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Dr. Robert Dean of West Houston Bible Church holds to this view that Revelation 21:8 refers to the believer's inheritance being burned up rather than referring to people who were never saved, and certainly not referring to the believer being able to lose his salvation.
I would like to see the scripture that say we are okay to sin at free will, have no regrets about it after being saved and all will still be well.
I wouldn't put it exactly like that but....
Rom 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Sin is no longer imputed. People who are saved aren't breathing a sigh of relief that they can now go on a rampage and sin because they have a "license". However, everyone still sins. It's no longer counted against us. Jesus took all past, present and future sins. Read Hebrews.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
Its not about understanding Grace, its about people who abuse Grace and use it as a ticket to sin at freewill.
Mike, if you decided form this day forward you are going to be a serial rapist and serial killer and die in your sins unrepentant, the bible says you will not go to heaven. You might think no real believer would become a rapist or killer, but I can say no real believer would live a life of fornication, drunkenness, or adultery, but many do.
Ah, the old "license to sin" argument. I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad. This is the reason Christians are in bondage. Because of all the guilt and condemnation.
This argument also minimizes sin and makes some ok. If a Christian "would live a life of fornication, drunkenness, or adultery" they aren't saved. HOWEVER, lying or being afraid IS ok ( or anything except the "big" sins). James said you break one, you break all the law. So if you lie, you're no better than a murderer or adulterer in the eyes of God. Trying to make only the "big" sins bad makes it easier for you to keep the law. News flash - there are no "big" or "little" sins. Only sin.
Fearful? Sin. Liar? Sin.
Rev 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable , and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
But.....
Rom 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
I don't know how much clearer it has to be than this. The LAW (trying to "obey) puts you under sin.
1 Cor 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
And of course.......
Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth .
Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved .
How people add works to this is beyond me.
My personal favorite....
2 Cor 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
It's the height of pride and arrogance for anyone to think they can add to Jesus's finished work. That was the issue with the Pharisees. Self-righteousness. Some things never change.
Sorry, nothing about receiving God's initial free gift of grace-faith, and then goin' on cruise control.
I'm still looking for a verse which says this free gift lasts forever, i.e. until our death.
Actually, it's just the opposite ... our faith must last forever, i.e. until our death (ref: 15 verses).
that we should be for the laud of His glory, who are pre-expectant in the Christ." In Whom you also - on
hearing the word of truth, the evangel of your salvation - in Whom on believing also, you are sealed with
the holy spirit of promise" (which is an earnest of the enjoyment of our allotment, to the deliverance of that
which has been procured) for the laud of His glory!" (Ephesians 1:12-14)
Eph 4:30 And do not be causing sorrow to the holy spirit of God by which you are sealed for the day of deliverance.
Rom 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
I don't know how much clearer it has to be than this. The LAW (trying to "obey) puts you under sin.
It's the height of pride and arrogance for anyone to think they can add to Jesus's finished work.
That was the issue with the Pharisees. Self-righteousness. Some things never change.
In Romans Chapter 6, Paul displays extreme tact ...
and He is leaving it up to the Holy Spirit to reveal to those who are led by the Spirit (8:14)
what indeed he is teaching here!
If we understand that Paul is the ultimate encourager, edifier, exhorter, etc.,
we see what he means when he says "sin shall not have dominion over you".
The context of the whole passage reveals that he really means ... Rom 6:14
For sin should not (must not) not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
... For the intent of the whole of Romans 6 is to warn them ... IF THEY CONTINUE TO BE SLAVES OF SIN, IT WILL COST THEM THEIR ETERNAL LIFE.
Moderator cut: deleted
Adding to Jesus' finished work
Yes indeed, He finished His ... and we are to finish ours!
Reference: about 100 warning passages to the churches!
Moderator cut: deletedthe path is narrow indeed.
The way to be an overcomer
"But IF we (continue to) walk in the light as He is in the light, we (continue to) have fellowship with one another,
andthe blood of Jesus Christ His Son (continues to) cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. IF we (continue to) confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just to (continue to) forgive us our sins and to (continue to) cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
(1 John 1:7-2:1) Derek Prince explained that the Greek verbs here are all continuous verbs.
Proverbs 28:13 “He who covers his sins will not prosper, but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.
Last edited by june 7th; 04-26-2014 at 01:44 AM..
Reason: Insults directed at others are deleted.
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