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Originally Posted by Pleroo JT, this made me think of something that happened just the other day. Hubby and I went to the chiro and the receptionist, a very young, pretty woman was dressed in shorts and a casual summer blouse. She was adorable. When we left I said to hubby, snarkily joking, "She should know better than to dress so cute in an office where their main clientele are out of shape middle aged women like me. Makes us feel bad about ourselves."
Now JT, what do you think? Should young women dress dowdy so that they don't tempt older women to feel jealousy? Should pretty women in general ugly up so that the rest of us don't fall to the temptation of coveting their good looks?
Or are men's temptations the only thing women should concern themselves with?
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Originally Posted by justtitans
What is considered sin and what isn't? That's the answer to your question.
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
How is your question the answer? I don't get it.
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Originally Posted by justtitans
You don't know what sin is? If you don't know what sin is and what it isn't then how are you going to know the difference between what you explained?
Come on JT. We were having what I thought was a pretty honest discussion and now you're going to pull a stunt like that? Where did I say that I don't know what sin is . I said that I don't understand how your question is an answer to my question. How about you explain it.
Come off it, justitans . . . we are not responsible for what others voluntarily choose to do. Romans 14:13 is a prohibition of judging others . . . not a license to judge everything that MIGHT somehow be a problem for someone else. If a woman makes NO overt advances to a man inviting a sexual encounter . . . she is NOT putting a stumbling block in his way. His own libido may be doing so . . . but that is NOT the woman's fault. Stop minding everyone else's business, justitans and focus on your own walk with Christ and what YOU are doing or not doing.
If a woman is dressing inappropriately, and is a believer, Jesus teaches us to confront her in love. A Christian woman should not be a stumbling block to other believers, just as drinking wine in front of an alcoholic would be a stumbling block. This is the meaning of the passage.
Come off it, justitans . . . we are not responsible for what others voluntarily choose to do. Romans 14:13 is a prohibition of judging others . . . not a license to judge everything that MIGHT somehow be a problem for someone else. If a woman makes NO overt advances to a man inviting a sexual encounter . . . she is NOT putting a stumbling block in his way. His own libido may be doing so . . . but that is NOT the woman's fault. Stop minding everyone else's business, justitans and focus on your own walk with Christ and what YOU are doing or not doing.
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Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
If a woman is dressing inappropriately, and is a believer, Jesus teaches us to confront her in love. A Christian woman should not be a stumbling block to other believers, just as drinking wine in front of an alcoholic would be a stumbling block. This is the meaning of the passage.
That is NOT what the passage means. It begins with an outright prohibition about judging others. What it says about stumbling block applies to thing we overtly do to try to lead someone astray. Each person is different in their self-control and it is impossible to accommodate every possibility. That is what leads to the absurdity of burkas and hijabs in Islam. Men are responsible for their own libidos. Mere visual stimulation can never be the source of a stumbling block. It takes a lot more overt invitation to a sexual encounter to be one.
Come off it, justitans . . . we are not responsible for what others voluntarily choose to do. Romans 14:13 is a prohibition of judging others . . . not a license to judge everything that MIGHT somehow be a problem for someone else. If a woman makes NO overt advances to a man inviting a sexual encounter . . . she is NOT putting a stumbling block in his way. His own libido may be doing so . . . but that is NOT the woman's fault. Stop minding everyone else's business, justitans and focus on your own walk with Christ and what YOU are doing or not doing.
But we aren't talking about women like that, we are talking about women who do overtly make advances. YES they exist.
That is NOT what the passage means. It begins with an outright prohibition about judging others. What it says about stumbling block applies to thing we overtly do to try to lead someone astray. Each person is different in their self-control and it is impossible to accommodate every possibility. That is what leads to the absurdity of burkas and hijabs in Islam. Men are responsible for their own libidos. Mere visual stimulation can never be the source of a stumbling block. It takes a lot more overt invitation to a sexual encounter to be one.
I'm afraid the scriptures show you are wrong...
You shall not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall fear your God: I am the Lord. ~ Leviticus 19:14
But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on [God’s interests, but man’s.” ~ Matthew 16:23
Peter was being used by Satan to cause Jesus to 'stumble' off the path towards His goal.
Jesus said in Matthew 18:
“And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!”
And then in 1 Corinthians, Paul teaches us not to allow our actions, though they may not be sinful, to be a stumbling block to those who are weaker in their spiritual walk.
However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat. But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol’s temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols? For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died. And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.
The Scripture is very clear that we are individually responsible for not being a stumbling block ar a distraction or hindrance to other believers, and this includes dressing inappropriately, causing a weaker brother to 'stumble'.
Come on JT. We were having what I thought was a pretty honest discussion and now you're going to pull a stunt like that? Where did I say that I don't know what sin is . I said that I don't understand how your question is an answer to my question. How about you explain it.
That is what I am telling you. What do you consider sin? You brought a comparative example of what I am talking about and I am asking you is that sin? How do you make another woman jealous? Is the woman's intention to make you jealous? Is a woman who is dressing nice causing sin?
Going back to what we are talking about here, if a woman wears something with the INTENTION of attracting attention from men, then that would be an example of a stumbling block and that is considered sinful behavior.
What is my point? What you described on the surface does not appear to be the same thing at all. Is this woman trying to make you jealous? Is she trying to get a reaction from you? These are things that we do not know, but subconsciously she knows. Do you consider making another woman jealous sin? I would assume no, so where is the correlation of your story to this topic?
Come off it, justitans . . . we are not responsible for what others voluntarily choose to do. Romans 14:13 is a prohibition of judging others . . . not a license to judge everything that MIGHT somehow be a problem for someone else. If a woman makes NO overt advances to a man inviting a sexual encounter . . . she is NOT putting a stumbling block in his way. His own libido may be doing so . . . but that is NOT the woman's fault. Stop minding everyone else's business, justitans and focus on your own walk with Christ and what YOU are doing or not doing.
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Originally Posted by justtitans
But we aren't talking about women like that, we are talking about women who do overtly make advances. YES they exist.
That is ridiculous. You were making generic assertions about the entire class of Christian women . . . not those who are deliberately sinning. You cannot make generic judgments about the dress of women who are NOT deliberately sinning. What you are doing is taking YOUR view of a woman's dress and assuming she must be sinning because of it. That is absurd.
That is NOT what the passage means. It begins with an outright prohibition about judging others. What it says about stumbling block applies to thing we overtly do to try to lead someone astray. Each person is different in their self-control and it is impossible to accommodate every possibility. That is what leads to the absurdity of burkas and hijabs in Islam. Men are responsible for their own libidos. Mere visual stimulation can never be the source of a stumbling block. It takes a lot more overt invitation to a sexual encounter to be one.
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Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
I'm afraid the scriptures show you are wrong...
Sorry . . . you have shown your unsound reading of too many passages already. You do NOT know how to read the Bible in agape love through the "mind of Christ." You do not test the Spirit of your interpretations against agape love. Christ is my ultimate arbiter of all truth . . . not your words "written in ink" and not tested against the Spirit.
These are things that we do not know, but subconsciously she knows.
Oh. So subconsciously women know that they are making men stumble. And, because their subconscious is causing them to show a little cleavage which causes men to stumble .... they have to be corrected.
Come off it, justitans . . . we are not responsible for what others voluntarily choose to do. Romans 14:13 is a prohibition of judging others . . . not a license to judge everything that MIGHT somehow be a problem for someone else. If a woman makes NO overt advances to a man inviting a sexual encounter . . . she is NOT putting a stumbling block in his way. His own libido may be doing so . . . but that is NOT the woman's fault. Stop minding everyone else's business, justitans and focus on your own walk with Christ and what YOU are doing or not doing.
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Originally Posted by justtitans
But we aren't talking about women like that, we are talking about women who do overtly make advances. YES they exist.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
That is ridiculous. You were making generic assertions about the entire class of Christian women . . . not those who are deliberately sinning. You cannot make generic judgments about the dress of women who are NOT deliberately sinning. What you are doing is taking YOUR view of a woman's dress and assuming she must be sinning because of it. That is absurd.
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Originally Posted by justtitans
I can't take you serious because you know exactly what you are doing and it's wrong. You know that I did not say that. I never made any generalization of women on here.
Your OP asked "what SHOULD we EXPECT Christian women to wear."That is pretty generic. I posted the sequence of posts between us for your use in jogging your memory about what you just said. I will repeat it here "we are talking about women who do overtly make advances. YES they exist." How am I misrepresenting you???
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