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Ro 4:3 What does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Ro 4:4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
Ro 4:5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.
Well, the OP ignores Roms. 3. Lets see if he ignores Rom. 4. And Paradise isn't heaven? What a silly man.lol
How DARE you quote an epistle. You know that the OP ignores them.
Chuckman. Do a search of the word faith in the Gospels. Notice how many times Jesus upholds the idea that faith in God is what Jesus is looking for first. Note how often he compliments the faith of different people, and criticizes at times the lack of faith of the disciples. Faith saves, not works. Are good works expected, absolutely, but no where does he say good works save. Otherwise he would have not continuously been at odds with Pharisees, who upheld the idea that keeping the law saves.
We are saved by Grace, not by Works. The Bible makes this perfectly clear. See Ephesians 2:8
However it also says that Faith without Works is dead. See James 2:14-26
Faith and Works are closely intertwined but should not be confused for one another. You cannot "earn" God's love, it is unconditional. When you have truly accepted his Free Gift of Salvation that is it, there is nothing more to it than that. However you are born anew and will be an agent for God, being guided by The Holy Spirit to help others.
You guys should call Paulinists instead of Christians.
So you're ignoring 3/4 of the NT. Hebrews said He took away the first (law) and implemented the second (grace). But of course you have to ignore that too. And since you only consider what Jesus said, consider this:
It is Paul who chose to ignore what Jesus said. It is he who made up his own philosophy. Jesus said to continue in his word. If someone chooses not to that is there prerogative but I choose to follow Him not Paul.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930
John 6:28-29:
28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
Probably one of the most ridiculous things I've read here, which is saying a lot. Since Jesus said the thief would be Him, where did Jesus go?
Works flow out of salvation. Not the other way around. And then you have that pesky John 3:16 verse...
Jesus went into the tomb, the ground which is where the thief went.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930
Your argument eliminates the need for the cross. I don't understand why people think they are still living under the OT.
If you look at Romans and Galatians, then.....oh, wait. We have to ignore that since they say that we are under grace and not the law.
Jesus preached the OT so those who follow Him must do so as well.
It amazes me how people choose the words of Paul when Jesus said to abide or remain in His word. Just because someone says they believe does not make it so when Jesus laid out the definition of believing in Him.
It is Paul who chose to ignore what Jesus said. It is he who made up his own philosophy. Jesus said to continue in his word. If someone chooses not to that is there prerogative but I choose to follow Him not Paul.
Jesus went into the tomb, the ground which is where the thief went.
Jesus preached the OT so those who follow Him must do so as well.
It amazes me how people choose the words of Paul when Jesus said to abide or remain in His word. Just because someone says they believe does not make it so when Jesus laid out the definition of believing in Him.
So you only believe parts of the Bible. It amazes me that people still try to live under the OT and make the cross of no effect. To believe what you say, there is no need for Jesus or the cross.
So you only believe parts of the Bible. It amazes me that people still try to live under the OT and make the cross of no effect. To believe what you say, there is no need for Jesus or the cross.
Thanks, but I'll take grace and not the law.
I keep the words of the Lord as Jesus said.
People fail to understand the law of God verses the law of rebel Israel.
"The law shall go forth from Zion and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."says the Lord
"Blessed is he who's way is blameless, who walks in the law of the Lord."
"How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of the messenger who announces peace, who brings good news, who announces salvation, who says to Zion, "Your God reigns."
"blessed is he who hears the word of the Lord and keeps it."
Whatever you do to these, the least of My brethren, you do to ME!
Why is it that you faith alone people never quote Jesus Himself?
We are ALWAYS being tested. Being a follower of Jesus means accepting continuous testing. I think the Gospels are FILLED with supporting teachings.
chuckman, the judgment of Matthew 25:31-46 is about Jesus judging the nations as to how they treated His Jewish brethren during the great tribulation. This is not about faith in Christ nor it is about being saved by good works. It is about when Christ comes back to set up His 1000 year kingdom on earth. The nations that mistreated His brethren get sent away from that kingdom. The nations that treated Christ's brethren correctly will receive the blessings of that kingdom He will set up.
Ro 4:3 What does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Ro 4:4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
Ro 4:5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.
Well, the OP ignores Roms. 3. Lets see if he ignores Rom. 4. And Paradise isn't heaven? What a silly man.lol
Again, Abraham's belief was in doing what God told him to do. It is not just thinking God exists, or accepting God will do something for you. Believing is doing the works of God and serving Him. Abraham's righteousness was in his works because he did what God told him to do.
Paul was flawed in his interpretation of scripture. God said that the soul who sins shall die. No one can receive condemnation for their Father's sin or receive life for their Father's righteousness. Everyone is accountable for their own actions. Apparently Paul missed that.
Ezekiel 18;
The person who sins shall die. A child shall not suffer for the iniquity of a parent, nor a parent suffer for the iniquity of a child; the righteousness of the righteous shall be his own, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be his own.
chuckman, the judgment of Matthew 25:31-46 is about Jesus judging the nations as to how they treated His Jewish brethren during the great tribulation. This is not about faith in Christ nor it is about being saved by good works. It is about when Christ comes back to set up His 1000 year kingdom on earth. The nations that mistreated His brethren get sent away from that kingdom. The nations that treated Christ's brethren correctly will receive the blessings of that kingdom He will set up.
Remember: Since Pentecost the ' brothers' of Jesus are Not fleshly Jewish brothers but spiritual according to 1st Peter 2 vs 9,5. Jesus' brothers' are spiritual brothers - Romans 2 vs 28,29.
Through the grace of God ' fleshly Israel ' today exists as a national group or nation, and Not his spiritual nation which is comprised of Christians throughout the earth. ' Spiritual Israel ' with No borders or boundaries found on any map.- Galatians 4 v 26; 6 v 16.
How people have treated Jesus ' Christian spiritual brothers ' at the coming ' time of separation ' of Matthew 25 vs 31, 32 before the start of or outbreak of the coming great tribulation on earth, not during.
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