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No it doesn't, to be carnally minded is sin and death. If you believe that Christians cannot be carnally minded you shouldn't even be a pastor.
You cannot hide behind the blood of Jesus.
Sorry. I don't recognize the "Book of Pcamps" as authoritative. This is the Christianity forum. Please cite chapter and verse from the scriptures.
1 John 1:8 "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." -- you have clearly shown there is no truth in what you're saying.
Romans 9:13 is showing preference, not visceral human hatred.
Amplified version has this for a better meaning:
Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated (held in relative disregard in comparison with My feeling for Jacob).
Other versions say He chose to bless Jacob and not Esau. We see that as Jacob gains Esau's birthright. Its not talking about damnation. It is talking about preference. Jacob was preferred over Esau for whatever task God had in mind.
And we see examples of that every day. Some people are blessed, some are not. Some are undeserving, and some deserve better. Yet it is under the control of God according to His timetable. That is what Romans 9 is about.
Romans 9:13 is showing preference, not visceral human hatred.
It says that God can choose to save some if he wants. Others, he hates.
Quote:
Amplified version has this for a better meaning:
Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated (held in relative disregard in comparison with My feeling for Jacob).
Other versions say He chose to bless Jacob and not Esau. We see that as Jacob gains Esau's birthright. Its not talking about damnation. It is talking about preference. Jacob was preferred over Esau for whatever task God had in mind.
And we see examples of that every day. Some people are blessed, some are not. Some are undeserving, and some deserve better. Yet it is under the control of God according to His timetable. That is what Romans 9 is about.
The Amplified Bible is a horrible translation. It's not a good practice to select the meaning you like for a particular word.
But having said that.....Paul establishes in previous chapters that we are all deserving of hell. If Christ doesn't save us...we go to hell.
Saul/Paul. He wanted nothing to do with Jesus. He was in the process of going to kill Christians.
Yet he was converted in an instant. It was nothing to do with Saul/Paul. It was everything to do with God.
And so it will happen for everyone of us, according to God's timetable.
I understand Saul/Paul. There are no guarantees in the Bible that the same will happen to everyone.
You are correct that it happens in an instant. Salvation is not a process. Sanctification is a process. Salvation is about our status. Sanctification is about our behavior.
It is a direct reference to it.
Vizio, come on, you know this I'm sure. Read the story of Esau & Jacob. Read Genesis 33.
Romans 9:13 is a direct quote from Malichi 1 which is referencing back to Jacob & Esau in Genesis, where we see what happened to Esau.
You honestly think Romans 9:13 is saying that Esau was sent to some sort of eternal hell?
I suppose its just like all the sinners he hates? Which includes you... and me...
Saul/Paul. He wanted nothing to do with Jesus. He was in the process of going to kill Christians.
Yet he was converted in an instant. It was nothing to do with Saul/Paul. It was everything to do with God.
And so it will happen for everyone of us, according to God's timetable.
Lego, may I say I disagree with you that even Paul's conversion was instantaneous, according to the bible. "Saul, Saul, is it hard for you to kick against the goads?" To me, that indicates that his heart had been in the process of being softened.
Aisi.
Last edited by Pleroo; 06-13-2014 at 03:02 PM..
Reason: oops, slight misquote
The bold above is what you guys say. Salvation for all. The assumption is all will want God. You guys have no source for your beliefs except your own thoughts. There is no reference, and no verifiable sources.
Wrong as usual. It is hard to know if you are simply oblivious or you deliberately misrepresent.
1 Timothy 4:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
11 These things command and teach.
Quote:
The point for myself - I can't make any headway when there is no controlling source. Nothing is written. You give me no statement of belief. There is absolutely no foundation that your theories are based upon. You pick and choose what parts of the Bible you believe and what you don't believe. You control God's character. You control God's behavior. You are your own God. Pcamps is his own God. MyStic also. You control everything.
Wrong again. The foundation is the New Covenant and the Comforter who abides with us to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts." You clearly do NOT believe the New covenant and do not trust what God has "written in our hearts" even with the guidance of the Comforter. Your lack of trust is probably because you think the Comforter has to confirm whatever you think SHOULD be in our hearts based on the "precepts and doctrines of men" created from the words "written in ink." That is why you have trouble when the "precepts and doctrines of men" are questioned or contradicted by what is in our hearts.
Lego, may I say I disagree with you that even Paul's conversion was instantaneous, according to the bible. "Saul, Saul, why are you kicking against the goads?" To me, that indicates that his heart had been in the process of being softened.
Aisi.
Yes that's fine Pleroo, the details can be debated akin to how many angels are dancing on the head of a pin.
To me AISI, its all part of the process salvation/sanctification whatever you want to call it. The light went on for Paul apparently instantaneously (but maybe it wasn't so instantaneous) but he still said he had to run the race. It took him a lifetime of overcoming.
I understand Saul/Paul. There are no guarantees in the Bible that the same will happen to everyone.
Of course there are such guarantees - you just don't accept them.
He will have all men to be saved.
He sent His son to be the savior of the world and the atonement for all, so He would be the savior of all people.
And many other verses.
For whatever reason, you don't believe this.
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