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Old 05-19-2014, 08:12 AM
 
4,684 posts, read 6,130,613 times
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No amount of good works and the keeping of God’s laws can be sufficient to atone for sin, as the blood of Jesus covers our sin and that is how we get our salvation through faith in him. While we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus, our faith in him will cause us to do good works as well.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


On judgement day, it is your WORKS that Jesus will judge and reward you accordingly. So your works DO MATTER

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.



Jesus even gave examples of not worry about material things on earth, so this is clearly pointing to our rewards when we get to heaven for the works done in the body

Matthew 6:19-21
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.


Faith Without Works Is Dead

James 2:14-18
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:03 AM
 
6,675 posts, read 4,271,885 times
Reputation: 8441
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
No amount of good works and the keeping of God’s laws can be sufficient to atone for sin, as the blood of Jesus covers our sin and that is how we get our salvation through faith in him. While we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus, our faith in him will cause us to do good works as well.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


On judgement day, it is your WORKS that Jesus will judge and reward you accordingly. So your works DO MATTER

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.



Jesus even gave examples of not worry about material things on earth, so this is clearly pointing to our rewards when we get to heaven for the works done in the body

Matthew 6:19-21
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.


Faith Without Works Is Dead

James 2:14-18
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works.
No argument here. I think your first paragraph sums it up nicely. The problem is that there are many who say you're saved by works.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:13 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,204 posts, read 26,393,888 times
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I don't think anyone has said that works don't matter. I certainly never have. They just aren't a requirement for receiving the free gift of eternal life. The believer's works will be evaluated at the judgment seat of Christ for the purpose of rewards and rank in the kingdom.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,819,289 times
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You've done an excellent job of providing God's truth in focused, relevant scripture. The important thing many fail to realize is that a final judgment to determine whether OR NOT one enters heaven or hell ... is only a Hollywood fabrication. That condition is 'only' eternally finalized at the instant one breathes their last breath, by their own choices and relationship with Jesus Christ during this lifetime.

The notion that 'God sends or condemns people to hell' is similarly a Hollywood or earth-based fabrication. People either choose the eternal life in relationship with God that He freely offers by Grace to all; ... or they receive the 'justice' ("wages") that they have, instead repeatedly and freely chosen.

Believers are then either awarded/not awarded eternal crowns/rewards/rank in the Kingdom (cf I Cor 1:12-15) ... on the basis of their earthly works. Just as "faith without works is dead", "works without faith, is likewise dead."

Last edited by jghorton; 05-19-2014 at 10:35 AM..
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,025,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
You've done a good job of highlighting some particularly applicable scriptures. The important thing many fail to realize is that a final judgment to determine whether OR NOT one enters heaven or hell ... is only a Hollywood fabrication. That is eternally finalized at the instant one breathes their last breath, by their own choices and relationship with Jesus Christ during this lifetime.

The notion that 'God sends people to hell' is similarly a Hollywood or earth-based fabrication. People either choose the eternal life in relationship with God that He freely offers by Grace to all; ... or they receive the 'justice' that they have, instead chosen.

As Mike pointed out, believers are then either awarded/not awarded eternal crowns/rewards/rank in the Kingdom (cf I Cor 1:12-15) ... on the basis of their earthly works. Just as "faith without works is dead", "works without faith, is likewise dead."
Paul shows that Works are used as a basis of whether you even receive Eternal life:

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his works:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,157,293 times
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Yes, your works - indeed every aspect of your life - will be assessed and judged upon death.

But not by God.

You'll judge yourself. You'll look into the mirror of your life and see your self/soul laid bare - stripped of excuses, rationales, and quotes from holy books.

You'll know a shame that outstrips anything you experienced in life.
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:11 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,204 posts, read 26,393,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Paul shows that Works are used as a basis of whether you even receive Eternal life:

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his works:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
You are then implying that Paul contradicted himself since he made it clear in Ephesians 2:8-9 as well as Titus 3:5 and Galatians 2:16 that our works are not a requirement for salvation or deliverance from the penalty of sin and for justification by which we enter into an eternal relationship with God.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Galatians 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Do you want to claim that Paul contradicted himself?

Romans 2:6-7 is hypothetical. If man could perfectly keep the law then he could be saved by keeping the law. But as Paul then when on to point out in Romans 3:20;
Romans 3:20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Paul's progressive argument in Romans chapters 2-5 is that man cannot be saved by his own righteousness but only through faith in Christ Jesus which results in being credited with God's own perfect righteousness and declared justified.

Scripture must always be compared with Scripture and within context. Text without context is a con job.
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:25 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,204 posts, read 26,393,888 times
Reputation: 16332
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Yes, your works - indeed every aspect of your life - will be assessed and judged upon death.

But not by God.

You'll judge yourself. You'll look into the mirror of your life and see your self/soul laid bare - stripped of excuses, rationales, and quotes from holy books.

You'll know a shame that outstrips anything you experienced in life.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

I'll take the Bible's (which is God's revealed word to man) word for who the judge will be. Not your personal opinion.
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Florida
77,005 posts, read 47,581,593 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
No amount of good works and the keeping of God’s laws can be sufficient to atone for sin, as the blood of Jesus covers our sin and that is how we get our salvation through faith in him. While we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus, our faith in him will cause us to do good works as well.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


On judgement day, it is your WORKS that Jesus will judge and reward you accordingly. So your works DO MATTER

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Yes, works are measured, but they do not determine salvation, only rewards. I am not sure that this even will occur on judgment day, or if you receive your rewards before it.
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,157,293 times
Reputation: 14069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

I'll take the Bible's (which is God's revealed word to man) word for who the judge will be. Not your personal opinion.
It's not my personal opinion.

It's my personal experience.

I understand why you'd rather believe your book but you'll find out the truth in due time.
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