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I like to be sure that when I do good, I do good because it is good to do good. I do not want to find out later that I only did good because I had an ulterior motive (like getting into heaven). So when I help people I want to be sure that I truly want to help THEM, instead of only MYSELF.
I also find it childish to only reward people when they act the way you want them to. This would mean that God could be either good or evil.
And I'd like to believe that God=Love, so can only be good and not evil, or good and evil.
I also do not fear God. To me God=Love; why should I ever fear love?
So I also do not do good out of fear for God.
Well I agree it's good to examine one's conscience in regards to motivation and purity. We are instructed by our Saviour to do good. I believe there is merit in doing good, for sake of the good, but primarily for the sake being obedient to the Saviour. And just for His sake, in His name. We do it out of love.
I agree: God = perfect love. A wise old man told me these three things:
* God is all-merciful, all-loving
* God is all-powerful, and...
* God Does Not Make Mistakes.
The occasion of his telling me this was when I'd told him that my beloved daughter had just been diagnosed with a rare & always fatal cancer. Regardless, the wise old man was/is 100% correct.
As far as the fearing, not fearing, I believe the word translated in the KJV as fear is more accurately rendered as respect/reverence. I'm not a Greek scholar, but I believe this is what the scholars say about that. Greek is a much more powerful and descriptive language than is English.
Hi, somewhere it was suggested that those who believe in the restoration of all men are twisting the scriptures. The thing is I am looking at the sovereignty of God as presented in the scriptures and I realize that the words which have been translated as eternal and eternity are mistranslations. Ages are indefinite periods of time which have a beginning and an end. God Himself created ages and He is working out His plan of salvation through the ages. This is why He is described as the aeionian God or God of the ages. But God Himself exists outside of time and outside of the ages. According 1 Corinthians 15 there will come a time when God will become all in all, when are subjected to Him. Many who believe in eternal hell don't respond to scriptures which are presented which speak to the sovereignty of God and the reconciliation of all to God but these scriptures cannot be ignored or rejected. Christian Universalists believe that there will be punishment, that many will experience the wrath of God but we also understand that God is just, merciful, and is described as love. If God purposes to do something I believe that He will do it and He Himself has said, "I will accomplish all my good pleasure." His good pleasure was to reconcile all to Himself (Colossians 1) I don't believe that God lies or is mistaken about what He will accomplish or about what He is able to do. God sent Jesus to be the Savior of the world and I believe that He will accomplish this. Yes, many scholars believe in eternal hell and have believed in eternal hell in the past but many scholars also believe in the eventual restoration of all and in many have believed this in the past.
Quote:
"In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."
The number of schools in the early church that taught ultimate reconciliation is an embarrassment to many modern church historians. Therefore, they often do whatever they can to hide these facts. I mention again that these Christian Universalists who were clearly the majority of the early Church, believed that all mankind through Christ would be restored. They believed and taught and many laid down their lives for the belief that Jesus Christ was truly the Savior of the whole world
According 1 Corinthians 15 there will come a time when God will become all in all, when are subjected to Him.
I've just about spoken my peace on this subject. I don't think this is something you could pick up a bible and just a bible and arrive at a Universalist's conclusions. I think you have to be (mis)taught this.
Anyway, ShanaBrown, does all mean all? Or if I ask a question about all will you start backing up and qualifying 'all'?
Will Satan be restored?
How about the fallen angels?
Now I bet all doesn't mean all.
All means the all the Children of God.
If you want to know who the Children of God are, please turn to the Gospel of John and read the first chapter, in particular, this verse:
He(Jesus) was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. John 1:10-13
Then why will he take 99% of Gods creation to hell with him? One (Jesus) gets 1% and the other (satan) gets 99% but Jesus is victorious? Now come on...don`t be stubborn..you know that doesn`t make sense. Just asking..LOL He will not be totally defeated until Jesus makes all of his enemies his footstool. That hasn`t happened yet. Also ,he can`t be defeated yet because people are still suffering and dying. That doesn`t sound like defeated to me....but he will be.
I don't know where you came up with 99% and 1% I have no idea how many people will be in Heaven or hell, only God knows that. People are still suffering and dying because this is sinful fallen world we live in, it does not mean Jesus did not defeat satan at the cross. I think there is already been enough scripture given to prove there that hell is eternal. If hell was not going to be eternal and God was going reconcile everyone to Himself, then why did Jesus die such a horrible death on the cross, it would have been for nothing.
Last edited by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA; 12-14-2007 at 09:12 AM..
Reason: left out word
I've just about spoken my peace on this subject. I don't think this is something you could pick up a bible and just a bible and arrive at a Universalist's conclusions. I think you have to be (mis)taught this.
Anyway, ShanaBrown, does all mean all? Or if I ask a question about all will you start backing up and qualifying 'all'?
Will Satan be restored?
How about the fallen angels?
Now I bet all doesn't mean all.
All means the all the Children of God.
If you want to know who the Children of God are, please turn to the Gospel of John and read the first chapter, in particular, this verse: He(Jesus) was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. John 1:10-13
Hi Alpha, many Christians have picked up the Bible and come to this conclusion. Many believe that those believers who believe in eternal hell have been mistaught. I believe that all does mean all when it refers to whomever God willed to reconcile to Himself.
Colossians 1 15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For byHim all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven."
(NAS)
Who might need to be reconciled in the heavens? Who is the apostle Paul speaking about?
I don’t dwell on this, and I was in disbelief when I first really read this, but there it is...
Ephesians 6:12
12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Christians are the children of God but all men are also His offspring and according to Romans 8, all of creationis to be delivered from the slavery to corruption and changed into the glorious freedom of the children of God. That is glorious news
This is presented in the scriptures. What does this have to do with itchy ears? It's right there.
Romans 8
18"For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the *creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21that the *creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now." (NAS)
*Some translations say "creature" in verses 19,20.
James 1:18
18 "In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures"
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 12-14-2007 at 03:48 PM..
I don't know where you came up with 99% and 1% I have no idea how many people will be in Heaven or hell, only God knows that. People are still suffering and dying because this is sinful fallen world we live in, it does not mean Jesus did not defeat satan at the cross. I think there is already been enough scripture given to prove there that hell is eternal. If hell was not going to be eternal and God was going reconcile everyone to Himself, then why did Jesus die such a horrible death on the cross, it would have been for nothing.
Evidently satan is still blinding the minds of men and holding them captive to do his will (all according to God's plan though) He is described as the god of this age. But God sent Jesus on a mission to be the Savior of the world and all are to be subjected to Him that God may be all in all. Satan is defeated in that God knows how things are going to work out but as the writer of Hebrews says, we do not see all in subjection to Jesus now. When all are subjected to Jesus and when all rule, power, and authority are abolished (except for the Father's) we will see the defeat of satan. Because we believe that Jesus died a horrible death and will be effective in restoring all men who belong to the Father back to the Father, means that Jesus died for nothing? Jesus died for all men, gave Himself as a ransom for all. All were lost, dead, enslaved to sin, estranged from God, sick, enemies of God. He died a horrible death for all of us. Without what He did at Calvary, none of us would be restored. He should get all if He died for all and all belong to Him. He deserves all. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 12-14-2007 at 03:30 PM..
OK, guys, post #88 is really confusing as to who said what. SPM, can you go in there and somehow indicate what parts were your new posting? Yikes.
sorry. it was a little late..I`ll try to fix it
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I like to be sure that when I do good, I do good because it is good to do good. I do not want to find out later that I only did good because I had an ulterior motive (like getting into heaven). So when I help people I want to be sure that I truly want to help THEM, instead of only MYSELF.
Now come on...don`t be stubborn..you know that doesn`t make sense. Just asking..LOL
He will not be totally defeated until Jesus makes all of his enemies his footstool. That hasn`t happened yet. Also ,he can`t be defeated yet because people are still suffering and dying. That doesn`t sound like defeated to me....but he will be.
