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Old 05-28-2014, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Twilight Zone
950 posts, read 691,279 times
Reputation: 676

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Why all the condemnation and animosity? There used to be a local Radio show on Catholicism. The lady-host would constantly condemn the Born-Again Christians as heretics. What makes it heresy? Is it because Catholicism is the original church, and so Born-Again Christians are comparative upstarts? And is the Pope regarded as the universal authority? I don't know, so I ask.
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Old 05-28-2014, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
10,060 posts, read 12,800,899 times
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The host in question should have done some research before she called born-again Christians heretics. Here is a link that should clear up some things.

Are Catholics Born Again? | Catholic Answers
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Old 05-28-2014, 03:49 PM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,336,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monastic555 View Post
Why all the condemnation and animosity? There used to be a local Radio show on Catholicism. The lady-host would constantly condemn the Born-Again Christians as heretics. What makes it heresy? Is it because Catholicism is the original church, and so Born-Again Christians are comparative upstarts? And is the Pope regarded as the universal authority? I don't know, so I ask.
Those were not Catholics. You are probably confused! Unless you are listening to medieval radio. The catechism of the church clearly states other Christians are saved.

Your post is
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Old 05-28-2014, 03:49 PM
 
9,688 posts, read 10,008,103 times
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Many Catholics have gone through the Charismatic Spiritual renewal in the Catholic Church which is the same as born again Pentecostal experience .... And there are many Catholic who have the gifts of Holy Spirit and there are some who speak in tongues , and it is fully acceptable from Vatican 2 agreements to allow the Holy Spirit into the Church
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Old 05-28-2014, 03:59 PM
 
1,970 posts, read 1,760,870 times
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Except that Catholics don't baptize by immersion.
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Old 05-28-2014, 04:03 PM
 
368 posts, read 391,325 times
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What do you mean by "born-again Christians"? And what in particular was the host of the show condemning?

I will tell you frankly that I have little patience with people who make blanket statements about what "Catholics" do, or what other groups do, when their real objection is to a statement made by ONE PERSON -- and even then, they are not too clear about what the thing they are objecting to was.

As for what heresy is, you might note the definition Thomas Aquinas gives (ST II-II:11:1):
"Therefore heresy is a species of unbelief, belonging to those who profess the Christian faith, but corrupt its dogmas."
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Old 05-28-2014, 04:04 PM
 
368 posts, read 391,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
The catechism of the church clearly states other Christians are saved.
You are very badly mistaken. The Catechism certainly does not state that other Christians are saved, just as it does not state that Catholics are necessarily saved. What it says is that others may be saved -- but a possibility and a certainty are NOT the same thing!!!!!!!
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Old 05-28-2014, 04:30 PM
 
368 posts, read 391,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MORebelWoman View Post
Except that Catholics don't baptize by immersion.
And neither do Anglicans, or Lutherans, or the UCC. So what? The word "baptizo" in Greek as used in the New Testament does not (not! NOT!!!) only mean "to immerse." For example, you find in Luke 11:38 that the Pharisee with whom Christ is dining is surprised to se that Christ does not "baptize" himself before dinner. It would be utter foolishness to think that this means that the Pharisee expected to watch Christ climb into a tank of water right there in the dining room and submerge his whole body. Instead, this refers to a very specific orthodox Jewish custom of washing the hands before eating, called "netilat yadayim". And how is this ritual performed? Why, by filling a cup with water, and pouring it over each hand.

Here are directions from WikiHow:
How to Perform Netilat Yadayim: 12 Steps - wikiHow

And the same from another site:
Washing for Bread

The evangelists clearly are not using the word to mean "immersion only", so why do you want to add things to the Word of God that aren't there?
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Old 05-28-2014, 04:31 PM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,336,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenWhiteBlue View Post
You are very badly mistaken. The Catechism certainly does not state that other Christians are saved, just as it does not state that Catholics are necessarily saved. What it says is that others may be saved -- but a possibility and a certainty are NOT the same thing!!!!!!!
I stand corrected!

However, they catechism further states that salvation is also possible for non-Christians. In fact, it is available to ALL humanity.
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Old 05-28-2014, 04:33 PM
 
1,970 posts, read 1,760,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenWhiteBlue View Post
And neither do Anglicans, or Lutherans, or the UCC. So what? The word "baptizo" in Greek as used in the New Testament does not (not! NOT!!!) only mean "to immerse." For example, you find in Luke 11:38 that the Pharisee with whom Christ is dining is surprised to se that Christ does not "baptize" himself before dinner. It would be utter foolishness to think that this means that the Pharisee expected to watch Christ climb into a tank of water right there in the dining room and submerge his whole body. Instead, this refers to a very specific orthodox Jewish custom of washing the hands before eating, called "netilat yadayim". And how is this ritual performed? Why, by filling a cup with water, and pouring it over each hand.

Here are directions from WikiHow:
How to Perform Netilat Yadayim: 12 Steps - wikiHow

And the same from another site:
Washing for Bread

The evangelists clearly are not using the word to mean "immersion only", so why do you want to add things to the Word of God that aren't there?
Sorry, but baptism is to be immersion, and it is supposed to be in LIVING waters, not the dead waters of a baptismal font either. I guess you are also going to say that John baptized Jesus the wrong way too. LOLOLOLOL
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