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Old 06-12-2014, 08:36 PM
 
22,440 posts, read 10,505,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
It's called Maturing, as in quality; not quantity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Call it what you want. An annual increase of 2.5 million converts is "new converts".
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
But are they truly "Christians"? We can't know.
It's a subjective evaluation, which is meaningless if you are not living it.
An altar call, does not make one a Christian, neither does reading the Bible.

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Old 06-12-2014, 09:04 PM
 
32,525 posts, read 31,490,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
[/list]if we were to make such a request from those who agree with you, would they be anymore willing to do so?
I have no idea. I have zero control over what anyone else says or thinks. If you want to know what "they" will do.... ask them.
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Old 06-13-2014, 04:39 AM
 
Location: New England
33,662 posts, read 21,914,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
It's a subjective evaluation, which is meaningless if you are not living it.
An altar call, does not make one a Christian, neither does reading the Bible.

Even Billy Graham acknowledged that most that responded to an alter call never went any further than that. There are also many walking away from mainstream christianity too. The religious and spiritual forum is full of them. I wait patiently now to be told that they were never of us in the first place
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Florida
66,938 posts, read 36,069,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
It's a subjective evaluation, which is meaningless if you are not living it. An altar call, does not make one a Christian, neither does reading the Bible.
And how would you know how many Indonesians are 'living it' compared to those who simply did the 'altar call'. You don't know, which renders your comment meaningless. Do you realize it is actually dangerous to become a Christian in a Muslim country? Putting Christ before your personal safety IS living it.

God is calling his people, and the Gospel is spreading like a wildfire even in Muslim countries

You can downplay it with your "Oh, but they're not real Christians, if they are not living it" arguments all day long, but it changes nothing.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 06-13-2014 at 09:00 AM..
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:26 AM
 
18,181 posts, read 11,437,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
And how would you know how many Indonesians are 'living it' compared to those who simply did the 'altar call'. You don't know, which renders your comment meaningless. Do you realize it is actually dangerous to become a Christian in a Muslim country? Putting Christ before your personal safety IS living it.

God is calling his people, and the Gospel is spreading like a wildfire even in Muslim countries

You can downplay it with your "Oh, but they're not real Christians, if they are not living it" arguments all day long, but it changes nothing.
It does change nothing.

By the way Indonesia is fairly safe for Christians as I had a friend who was a missionary there and it is more secular other than in rural areas, unlike Saudi Arabia, ran, etc. On the other hand the term "Rice Christian" had real meaning in China as many claimed to be Christian for the benefits the missionaries were handing out, but when push came to shove, they faded away.

A claim is just a claim. Reality is different. Will God bring more in at the End yes, will they ever be a majority, no. Jesus plainly tells us his true followers are few. We either believe him or we don't.

While we all should want more to make a genuine response, we also have to make sure we are.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:45 AM
 
32,525 posts, read 31,490,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDJudge View Post
Then, can you not read me or reply to me anymore?
hmmmm.... I'd urge you to investigate the "Ignore" feature if you don't like some of the responses you get. Easy peasy.

Last edited by DewDropInn; 06-13-2014 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Florida
66,938 posts, read 36,069,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
It does change nothing.

By the way Indonesia is fairly safe for Christians as I had a friend who was a missionary there and it is more secular other than in rural areas, unlike Saudi Arabia, ran, etc.
Maybe not as bad as Saudi Arabia, but still pretty bad:

Quote:
In January 1999 tens of thousands died when Muslim gunmen gunmen terrorized Christians who had voted for independence in East Timor.

In Indonesia, religious conflicts have typically occurred in Western New Guinea, Maluku (particularly Ambon), and Sulawesi. The presence of Muslims in these regions is in part a result of the transmigrasi program of population re-distribution. Conflicts have often occurred because of the aims of radical Islamist organizations such as Jemaah Islamiah or Laskar Jihad to impose Sharia, with such groups attacking Christians and destroying over 600 churches.

In 2006 three Christian girls were beheaded as retaliation for previous Muslim deaths in Christian-Muslim rioting The men were imprisoned for the murders, including Jemaah Islamiyah's district ringleader Hasanuddin. On going to jail, Hasanuddin said, "It's not a problem (if I am being sentenced to prison), because this is a part of our struggle."Later on November 2011, another attack from Islamic community happen in Ambon. Muslims set fire to several Christian houses, forcing the occupants to leave the
buildings.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:19 PM
 
18,181 posts, read 11,437,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Maybe not as bad as Saudi Arabia, but still pretty bad:
Notice the areas. Is it like the US, no, but then neither was Italy in the 1st and 2nd centuries. We either make a stand or don't. Hiding and caving in ... indicates a lack of a genuine relationship with God.

Of course being wise does indicate being careful.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:04 PM
 
22,440 posts, read 10,505,751 times
Reputation: 1840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
It's a subjective evaluation, which is meaningless if you are not living it.
An altar call, does not make one a Christian, neither does reading the Bible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
And how would you know how many Indonesians are 'living it' compared to those who simply did the 'altar call'. You don't know, which renders your comment meaningless. Do you realize it is actually dangerous to become a Christian in a Muslim country? Putting Christ before your personal safety IS living it.

God is calling his people, and the Gospel is spreading like a wildfire even in Muslim countries

You can downplay it with your "Oh, but they're not real Christians, if they are not living it" arguments all day long, but it changes nothing.
Excessive intolerance of opposing views come from all walks of life; but mainly the religious.
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Old 06-13-2014, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Florida
66,938 posts, read 36,069,227 times
Reputation: 11290
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Notice the areas. Is it like the US, no, but then neither was Italy in the 1st and 2nd centuries. We either make a stand or don't. Hiding and caving in ... indicates a lack of a genuine relationship with God.

Of course being wise does indicate being careful.
If they were hiing, we would not know there are 21 million Christians in Indonesia, and tens of tousands of them would not have been slaughtered. They are not hiding, which proves my point about "living their faith".
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