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No, you cannot, so your claim about people having the choice doesn't quite add up.
Let's not play games. Everyone knows what the question means. Why do people have to die? You will be raptured if you happen to be a believer at the time of rapture. It is not a choice. The question is obviously about the 99.9999999999% of us who must die, and the question is why it is so.
still insistant that all men must die because of adam sin yet believe that some will be raptured. sorry fin you have proven that which you believe does not pass the mustard as you cannot hold both views at the same time and remain true to both.
for arguments sake let say there is a rapture, if one choose life in Christ does that choice not equip them to be raptured?
I see because of sin has the most votes....how can anyone even think of saying that, why then do babies die who havent had time to sin... what utter rubbish.
I see because of sin has the most votes....how can anyone even think of saying that, why then do babies die who havent had time to sin... what utter rubbish.
What fundamentalist Christianity cannot seem to grasp is that God set natural laws of order into place and natural law, working on a random basis, are what govern this universe. That's why prayer doesn't work (with rare exceptions) why, in spite of unceasing prayers, babies by the millions all over the world die in horrible ways every year; why good people Christians, Hindus, Buddhists are wiped out by the hundreds of thousands when a random tsunami or earthquake or typhoon or mudslide hits; why you narrowly avoid a car accident one moment and say, "Thank you, Lord" only to be killed a few minute later when a diesel truck rams into you.
There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to how the natural laws operate and there isn't to anyone---except God. He always places the natural order first and the supernatural order second in His dealings with earth. Babies are sin-free yet they die anyway. It's the natural order of things that a certain percentage of babies, 1 YO's, 2 YO's, 3 YO's are going to die of disease, auto accidents, starvation, etc. and a certain percentage are going to survive. Darwin's law of survival of the fittest is a God-made law very much in operation.
The original sin-thing was invented by the RCC to promote the agenda of selling indulgences for $$$'s and for theological advantages and it was later adopted by Luther, a former RC with enough psychological problems to keep an army of psychiatrist busy for ten lifetimes. That is why a concept as ridiculous as original sin has survived to this day.
I see because of sin has the most votes....how can anyone even think of saying that, why then do babies die who havent had time to sin... what utter rubbish.
Sin nature/fallen world is the way I see it. Sins of others are visited on the innocent. For example, a mom who does drugs and her kid is born addicted to heroin. Kid is taken away and put into the foster system, which can be abusive. The kid loses hope, does drugs to escape, repeating the cycle of sin.
Sin of Adam is visited on the entire creation. That includes animals (killing each other) and nature (earthquakes, hurricanes, basically recycling itself causing harm to the living).
The separation from God took away our eternal life until the time allotted for Jesus to come back and return creation to its original perfection. That creation will be free from pain, death, suffering, and the trials that come from the earth recycling itself (natural disasters, animals eating each other).
So the reason I believe we die a physical death, because eternal life in this fallen world would not be ideal. It's just a shadow of the real life to come anyway.
Stop it Twin. Pcamps and I speak for ourselves just as you speak for yourself. Your constant lies and personal attacks against those you disagree with are getting very tiresome.
For it to be a "personal attack" would mean that the "bible" that is "written in our hearts" is this, you admit to worshiping yourself, making yourself on the same level as the Bible which claims it to be the absolute truth, just as you folks accuse us of "we worship the Bible" and telling us we are NOT God.
So guess what gander ...... I'm attacking nobody other than your barbaric ancestry with it's interpretations etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You call those who promote agape love for us all demons and accuse us of having a wicked satanic agenda, etc. You are NOT revealing the "fruits" of a Christian with your venom and vitriol. YOU may think Christians are supposed to HATE . . . but we do not. We believe Jesus when He said "love God and each other." You are loved, Twin . . . but you do NOT seem to know how to love or what love is.
There ... within seconds you shown yourself for what others have stated which is also becoming tiresome, your double standards.
You levy accusations of us having " constant lies and personal attacks against those you disagree with " and that we are judging others ... yet you do more what you accuse others of doing while acting like being as pure as the wind driven snow than anybody else I'm familiar with .
Stop it Twin. Pcamps and I speak for ourselves just as you speak for yourself. Your constant lies and personal attacks against those you disagree with are getting very tiresome. You call those who promote agape love for us all demons and accuse us of having a wicked satanic agenda, etc. You are NOT revealing the "fruits" of a Christian with your venom and vitriol. YOU may think Christians are supposed to HATE . . . but we do not. We believe Jesus when He said "love God and each other." You are loved, Twin . . . but you do NOT seem to know how to love or what love is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
For it to be a "personal attack" would mean that the "bible" that is "written in our hearts" is this, you admit to worshiping yourself, making yourself on the same level as the Bible which claims it to be the absolute truth, just as you folks accuse us of "we worship the Bible" and telling us we are NOT God.
So guess what gander ...... I'm attacking nobody other than your barbaric ancestry with it's interpretations etc.
There ... within seconds you shown yourself for what others have stated which is also becoming tiresome, your double standards.
You levy accusations of us having " constant lies and personal attacks against those you disagree with " and that we are judging others ... yet you do more what you accuse others of doing while acting like being as pure as the wind driven snow.
I suggest you both take a step back, this type of thing helps no one.
You are NOT revealing the "fruits" of a Christian with your venom and vitriol. YOU may think Christians are supposed to HATE . . . but we do not.
Take your judgment and false accusations elsewhere. This is the viper talking.
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