Jesus=God (definition, pray, disciples, Holy Spirit) - - Page 48 - City-Data Forum

spm62 · 11-09-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Campbell34

This belief is found mostly in cults which ignore the clear teachings of the Scriptures. And it requires believeing the teachings of man rather than the teachings of God.

God is a title..you just can`t seem to grasp that because you are stuck in your ideology. You say they are the same but not the same. For instance ,you claim that Jesus is not the Father but they are the same God....huh? It`s true they are not the same..so they cannot possibly be the same. You want to cling to monotheism but you know that Jesus and the Father are not the same so you come up with this idea that IS NEVER MENTIONED in the BIBLE. Please show me where it says that there is a trinity... Not you taking verses and molding them to say a trinity. Jesus says my Father is greater than I...I believe that..you obviously don`t. But you know that it says that plainly in scripture and it doesn`t fit your ideology so you look for scriptures that say something like my Father and I are one and then you tell us what that verse actually means..or you will say..what it means is that Jesus as a man became less than the father. but then you still want to maintain that Chrsit never lost his /God nature. Do you see how the church tries to talk out of both sides of their mouth. Scripture is just irrefutable but it doesn`t fit their trinity theory so they have to intepret it for you and that`s the trouble I have with man`s teachings. You ignore plain scripture or you put your spin on it to make it fit your ideology. Have you noticed how I have given you plain scripture that doesn`t need any interpretation but the scriptures you give,you have to tell us what they mean? I`m glad that you understand that Jesus is not the Father. But there is only one supreme being..one personality..one spirit..one deity..who was there before anything...that was the Father. If you don`t believe that then you don`t believe in monotheism. But I can tell that you want to believe in monotheism and you understand that Jesus is not the Father so you look for a way to have monotheism but still say they are different,hence you have this convoluted doctrine of a trinity. They have the same TITLE of God but someone had to be first or you don`t have monotheism ...as much as you try to twist it all around and look for a way for it to fit.
Do you believe these verses?

"There is ONE GOD, the FATHER, out of Whom ALL is..." (I Cor. 8:6).
1) Who is the ONE GOD? Does it say Jesus,plus the holy spirit, plus the father = the one God? So who does it say the ONE GOD IS?

Jesus called His Father "...the ONLY TRUE GOD" (Jn. 17:3).
2) Who did Jesus say the ONE TRUE GOD IS? Did he say the one true God is me + father+holy spirit? So who does he say the ONE TRUE GOD IS?

"Now it is eonian life that they may know Thee, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Him Whom Thou dost commission, Jesus Christ" (John 17:3).
3) Who commissioned Jesus Christ? Whoever commissioned Jesus is the ONLY TRUE GOD.

"Now I want you to be aware that the Head of every man is Christ, yet the head of the woman is the man, yet the Head of Christ IS GOD" (I Cor. 11:3).

4)Who is the head of christ? Is it God? Is Jesus the head of himself? God is the head of Jesus and so who is God? Is Jesus+holy spirit+father the head of Jesus? It says God and since you believe they all make up God then they all together make up the head of christ!

For there is ONE God, and ONE Mediator OF God and mankind, a MAN Christ Jesus..." (I Tim. 2:5).

5) How many God`s? Who is the mediator of God? Is Jesus the mediator of himself? It says one mediator OF God...OF GOD. If Jesus+holy spirit+father make up this one God then this verse wouldn`t make any sense and Jesus would be the mediator of himself or at least part mediator of himself since you believe he helps make up the person he is mediator of!

Do you see how these verses really speak for themselves? So instead of believing these plain easy to read scriptures for exactly what they say..you try to interpret them to mean something else. Can you see that? Just read the first verse I gave above....one God..the Father. God`s word tells you who the one God is...THE FATHER! It doesn`t say one God..the Father + Jesus+ holy spirit does it? It says ONE GOD THE FATHER! Simple plain easy to read scripture. No adding to it. If you just simply won`t believe that scripture then you are making God out to be liar..plain and simple. You just won`t believe and would rather follow man`s teaching.

Quote:

That's why when Jesus tells us that if we have seen Him we have seen the Father, I believe that. And I believe that, because I believe in the Triune God.

When Jesus said to be as one as he and the Father are one..do you believe that too? Because if you do than you must believe that we are all the same person. Can you see that? You`ve already said you don`t think they are the same person now you`re saying this verse means they are the same! Jesus said all I have the Father has given me. Why did he need anything from the father if they make up the same God? Pray that Jesus will open your mind to his simple truths..then just read and believe

Isaiah54:17 · 11-10-2008, 02:05 AM

ABBA Father God is sending his son Jesus Christ to Rapture us!

(I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God)

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father, but go to my brethren, and say unto them (I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God)

Matthew 10:32
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men (him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven)

(Notice in Matthew 10:32) Jesus Christ(The Son) Said, Confess me before men, Him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

When Jesus Christ the Son went alone to pray, he was not talking to himself, Jesus Christ was talking to Father God In Heaven!

When Jesus Christ was babtized, The Father talked to the son!

Father God spoke to Jesus Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration.

As Jesus Christ was on the cross, He gave his spirit to Father God!

The Son(Lamb) Jesus Christ did not say, I give my spirit to myself.

(and his redeemer the LORD of hosts) Our redeemer (The Son of God) Jesus Christ as shared in Isaiah 44:6

Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, (and his redeemer the LORD of hosts) I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

(the Son of God) Daniel 3:25

Daniel 3:25
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like (the Son of God) KJV

(Notice in Daniel 3:25)
The Son of God Rescued Shadrach, Meshack, And Abednego from the danger, and this was in the Old Testament. Praise God!

Notice in Daniel Daniel 7:13 Son of Man(Jesus Christ) and the Ancient of Days (Father God) (They)

Daniel 7:13
I saw in the night visions, and, behold (one like the Son of man) came with the clouds of heaven, and came to (the Ancient of days) and (they) brought him near before him.
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(He that overcometh) I (Son Jesus Christ) will confess his name (before my Father,and before his angels)

Revelation 3:5
(He that overcometh) the same shall be clothed in white raiment, and I will not blot out his name out of (the book of life) but I will confess his name (before my Father, and before his angels)

(Notice In Revelation 3:5)
The Son Jesus Christ with the Book of Life, and Jesus is the one who will not blot out our names, and the Son Jesus Christ will Confess the names before Father God, and his Angels!

(READ Revelation 5:1-13) The Lamb(Jesus Christ) Takes the book from the right hand of Father God. In Revelation 5:7 (Jesus Christ Is Lord, Amen)

(The very purpose of our Lord, and his sacrifice on the cross at Calvary was to reconcile/redeem mankind with Father God) Revelation 5:9

(and unto the Lamb for ever and ever) Revelation 5:13

Jesus coming unto him, Behold the Lamb of God) which taketh away the sin of the world. as shared in John 1:29

John 1:29

The next day John seeth (Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God) which taketh away the sin of the world.

Revelation 22:1
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God (and of the Lamb)

Revelation 21:22-23 (and the Lamb) Jesus Christ The Son.

And I saw no temple therein,for (the Lord God Almighty) (and the Lamb) are the temple of it.23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it, for (the glory of God did lighten it) (and the Lamb) is the light thereof.
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(Us, Our) Abba Father God, and the Son Jesus Christ.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let (us) make man in (our) image, after (our) likeness.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of (us)

Genesis 11:7 Go to, let (us) go down, and there confound their language,

Isaiah 6:8

Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for (us)
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(the Spirit of his Son) into your hearts, crying (Abba, Father)

Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth (the Spirit of his Son) into your hearts, crying (Abba, Father)

Notice in Galations 4:6 Father God sends Forth the (Spirit) of his Son, Jesus Christ!

The Son Jesus Christ has a Spirit, and his spirit in us Cries out to Abba Father God.
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Notice When Worshipping Lord God Almighty! Holy is spoken 3 times. Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty. (Father, Son, Holy Ghost)

Isaiah 6:3
And one cried unto another, and said, (Holy, holy, holy) is the LORD of hosts, the whole earth is full of his glory.

Revelation 4:8
And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him, and they were full of eyes within, and they rest not day and night, saying, (Holy, holy, holy) LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
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He is antichrist, that denieth the Father, and the Son.

(Abba Father God is in Heaven, and the Son Jesus Christ is alive, and was living before he came to Earth(The World) as the only Begotten Son in the Flesh to save souls(spirits) from Hell. (1 Peter 1:20, John 17:5, John 17:24, Hebrews 1:2, Hebrews 1:10)

(Read) The form of the fourth is like (the Son of God) (Notice in Daniel 3:25) this was in the Old Testament. Praise God! KJV

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Abba Father God is in Heaven, and the Son Jesus Christ is alive, and Abba Father God is sending his son Jesus Christ to Rapture us...

One must never deny the Father, and the Son(The Lamb) and the Holy Ghost.

Abba FATHER, The SON JESUS CHRIST(The Lamb) and The HOLY GHOST! GODHEAD.

I Love the Father and the Son, and the Holy Ghost! at all Times.AMEN.

Remember it's The Son Jesus Christ with the Book of Life, and Jesus is the one who will not blot out our names, and the Son Jesus Christ will Confess the names before Father God, and his Angels! (as Shared in Revelation 3:5)

+++

In my Fathers House

+++

John 14:1-3
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Revelation 3:5
(He that overcometh) the same shall be clothed in white raiment, and I will not blot out his name out of (the book of life) but I will confess his name (before my Father, and before his angels)

Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will (I grant to sit with me in my throne) even as I also overcame, and am set down with (my Father in his throne)

Revelation 7:10
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our (God which sitteth upon the throne) (and unto the Lamb)

__________________
Rapture Prophecy
[URL="http://www.raptureprophecy.com/"]http://www.raptureprophecy.com[/URL]

Campbell34 · 11-11-2008, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spm62

God is a title..you just can`t seem to grasp that because you are stuck in your ideology. You say they are the same but not the same. For instance ,you claim that Jesus is not the Father but they are the same God....huh? It`s true they are not the same..so they cannot possibly be the same. You want to cling to monotheism but you know that Jesus and the Father are not the same so you come up with this idea that IS NEVER MENTIONED in the BIBLE. Please show me where it says that there is a trinity... Not you taking verses and molding them to say a trinity. Jesus says my Father is greater than I...I believe that..you obviously don`t. But you know that it says that plainly in scripture and it doesn`t fit your ideology so you look for scriptures that say something like my Father and I are one and then you tell us what that verse actually means..or you will say..what it means is that Jesus as a man became less than the father. but then you still want to maintain that Chrsit never lost his /God nature. Do you see how the church tries to talk out of both sides of their mouth. Scripture is just irrefutable but it doesn`t fit their trinity theory so they have to intepret it for you and that`s the trouble I have with man`s teachings. You ignore plain scripture or you put your spin on it to make it fit your ideology. Have you noticed how I have given you plain scripture that doesn`t need any interpretation but the scriptures you give,you have to tell us what they mean? I`m glad that you understand that Jesus is not the Father. But there is only one supreme being..one personality..one spirit..one deity..who was there before anything...that was the Father. If you don`t believe that then you don`t believe in monotheism. But I can tell that you want to believe in monotheism and you understand that Jesus is not the Father so you look for a way to have monotheism but still say they are different,hence you have this convoluted doctrine of a trinity. They have the same TITLE of God but someone had to be first or you don`t have monotheism ...as much as you try to twist it all around and look for a way for it to fit.
Do you believe these verses?

"There is ONE GOD, the FATHER, out of Whom ALL is..." (I Cor. 8:6).
1) Who is the ONE GOD? Does it say Jesus,plus the holy spirit, plus the father = the one God? So who does it say the ONE GOD IS?

Jesus called His Father "...the ONLY TRUE GOD" (Jn. 17:3).
2) Who did Jesus say the ONE TRUE GOD IS? Did he say the one true God is me + father+holy spirit? So who does he say the ONE TRUE GOD IS?

"Now it is eonian life that they may know Thee, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Him Whom Thou dost commission, Jesus Christ" (John 17:3).
3) Who commissioned Jesus Christ? Whoever commissioned Jesus is the ONLY TRUE GOD.

"Now I want you to be aware that the Head of every man is Christ, yet the head of the woman is the man, yet the Head of Christ IS GOD" (I Cor. 11:3).

4)Who is the head of christ? Is it God? Is Jesus the head of himself? God is the head of Jesus and so who is God? Is Jesus+holy spirit+father the head of Jesus? It says God and since you believe they all make up God then they all together make up the head of christ!

For there is ONE God, and ONE Mediator OF God and mankind, a MAN Christ Jesus..." (I Tim. 2:5).

5) How many God`s? Who is the mediator of God? Is Jesus the mediator of himself? It says one mediator OF God...OF GOD. If Jesus+holy spirit+father make up this one God then this verse wouldn`t make any sense and Jesus would be the mediator of himself or at least part mediator of himself since you believe he helps make up the person he is mediator of!

Do you see how these verses really speak for themselves? So instead of believing these plain easy to read scriptures for exactly what they say..you try to interpret them to mean something else. Can you see that? Just read the first verse I gave above....one God..the Father. God`s word tells you who the one God is...THE FATHER! It doesn`t say one God..the Father + Jesus+ holy spirit does it? It says ONE GOD THE FATHER! Simple plain easy to read scripture. No adding to it. If you just simply won`t believe that scripture then you are making God out to be liar..plain and simple. You just won`t believe and would rather follow man`s teaching.

When Jesus said to be as one as he and the Father are one..do you believe that too? Because if you do than you must believe that we are all the same person. Can you see that? You`ve already said you don`t think they are the same person now you`re saying this verse means they are the same! Jesus said all I have the Father has given me. Why did he need anything from the father if they make up the same God? Pray that Jesus will open your mind to his simple truths..then just read and believe

Where does the Bible say there is a Trinity? Where does the Old Testament say the name Jesus Christ? No where, yet because of the Old Testament prophecies we no who Jesus Christ is. And because of the Bible we know that a Trinity exist. And I do believe that the Father is greater than Jesus, yet I still believe they together = One God. 1 Corithians 8:6 says there is only one God the Father. And yet the Father tells Jesus your throne oh God is forever. Yet Jesus tells us the Lord your God, (shall you worship, and him alone shall you serve).

Deuteronomy 4:35 "To you it was shown that you might know that the Lord, He is God; (THERE IS NO OTHER BESIDES HIM.) Are you saying God was wrong here because His created God will be seated beside Him?

When the God of the Old Testament tells us in Exodus 20:3 that we should not have any other Gods besides me, was He wrong? Are you telling me we should worship Jesus as a second God?

So who do we serve and worship? Do we serve and worship Jesus? Or do we serve and worship the Father? Or do we Worship both of them as two Gods?

ShanaBrown · 11-11-2008, 05:03 AM

Hebrews 1

Quote:

8and unto the Son: `Thy throne, O God, [is] to the age of the age; a scepter of righteousness [is] the scepter of thy reign; 9thou didst love righteousness, and didst hate lawlessness; because of this did He anoint thee -- God, thy God -- with oil of gladness above thy partners;' (Young's Literal)

Quote:

God is a title

Yes. Jesus is God in the restrictive sense and He is the exact image, likeness, or representation of the invisible God. But the invisible God, God the Father is absolute Deity. He gave all things to Jesus, the Son and He appointed Jesus, the Son. The Son was given all authority by the Father who is absolute Deity. The Son can do nothing without the Father, the source. The Son always points to the Father. The Son delivers all things to the Father, is subject to the Father and will be subject to the Father. He will reign until He puts all enemies under His feet.

How can one who is absolute Deity be subject to absolute Deity?

1 Corinthians 8:
4Concerning the eating then of the things sacrificed to idols, we have known that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that there is no other God except one;

5for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth -- as there are gods many and lords many -- 6yet to us [is] one God, the Father, of whom [are] the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom [are] the all things, and we through Him;

John 5: 30 I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Have a blessed day.

firstborn888 · 11-11-2008, 05:21 AM

I'm always a little reluctant to jump into trinity debate threads, but here i go anyway. The Son is the exact representation of the Father. the Father IS an unseen Spirit and that Spirit, of course, is holy (pure). NOT three persons, NOT three manifestations. One God who is before all, above all and in you all. The Son is OF God (the Son of God, right?) and the Holy Spirit is OF God (the Spirit of God, right?). The Son and the Spirit are two ways by which the one God reveals Himself. Very simple and straight forward and scriptural.

Campbell34 · 11-11-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

Hebrews 1

Yes. Jesus is God in the restrictive sense and He is the exact image, likeness, or representation of the invisible God. But the invisible God, God the Father is absolute Deity. He gave all things to Jesus, the Son and He appointed Jesus, the Son. The Son was given all authority by the Father who is absolute Deity. The Son can do nothing without the Father, the source. The Son always points to the Father. The Son delivers all things to the Father, is subject to the Father and will be subject to the Father. He will reign until He puts all enemies under His feet.

How can one who is absolute Deity be subject to absolute Deity?

1 Corinthians 8:

4Concerning the eating then of the things sacrificed to idols, we have known that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that there is no other God except one;

5for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth -- as there are gods many and lords many -- 6yet to us [is] one God, the Father, of whom [are] the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom [are] the all things, and we through Him;

John 5: 30 I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Have a blessed day.

Jesus is subjected to the Father, because that is the order of the 3 in one God. How can one believe that Jesus is a seperate God?
Scripture clearly states in (Isaiah 46:9).
I am God, (AND THERE IS NO OTHER); I am God, and there is none like me"

(Exodus 20:3) "You shall have no other Gods before me"

If Jesus is a (seperate God), it appears we would have another God before the God of the Old Testament. And the God of the Old Testament commands us not to.

Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit = One God.

(1 John 5:7) There are three that bare record in heaven, the the Father, the Word(Jesus), and the Holy Ghost, and these three are One.

Campbell34 · 11-11-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstborn888

I'm always a little reluctant to jump into trinity debate threads, but here i go anyway. The Son is the exact representation of the Father. the Father IS an unseen Spirit and that Spirit, of course, is holy (pure). NOT three persons, NOT three manifestations. One God who is before all, above all and in you all. The Son is OF God (the Son of God, right?) and the Holy Spirit is OF God (the Spirit of God, right?). The Son and the Spirit are two ways by which the one God reveals Himself. Very simple and straight forward and scriptural.

If you are suggesting that we are looking a three Gods, this would be a departure from the Scriptures, for the Bible clearly teaches that there is only ONE GOD.

(Isaiah 46:9) I am God, (AND THERE IS NO OTHER); I am God, and there is none like me"

ShanaBrown · 11-11-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Jesus is subjected to the Father, because that is the order of the 3 in one God. How can one believe that Jesus is a seperate God?
Scripture clearly states in (Isaiah 46:9).
I am God, (AND THERE IS NO OTHER); I am God, and there is none like me"

There is one absolute Deity. How is one who is absolute Deity be subject to absolute Deity? No one is subject to absolute Deity. There is no one above absolute Deity. Jesus is subject to the Father, because the Father is absolute Deity. Jesus said that He could do nothing of Himself. Absolute Deity has all power. Jesus is the exact image, likeness, representation of the invisible God, the Father, Campbell. He is not the Father who is is absolute Deity. He has the title of God because the Father gave Him this title and He is filled with the fulness of God. God, the Father, gave Him all authority. When we "look at Jesus" we "see" the absolute Deity, the invisible God because Jesus is the exact image, likeness, representation of the invisible God. He reveals the Father, the absolute Deity, to us.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are united, one in purpose. Jesus prayed for His disciples to be one just as He and the Father are one.

God bless.

Betsey Lane · 11-11-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spm62

Is Jesus God? Now before you post here, please be aware that others may not have the same opinion as you. Let`s not get our feathers all ruffled if that is the case. Let`s present our belief with love and understanding and try to learn from each other without condeming someone to hell. Having said that,the previous warning doesn`t apply to me....just kidding..

Jesus=God? All day long.............................................. .................Final Answer!!

ShanaBrown · 11-11-2008, 06:44 PM

Yes, Jesus = God in a restrictive sense, Betsey. What is an image? Just asking. God bless.