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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
If you don't believe in the divine inspiration of the Scriptures, then talking about the validity of them is fruitless. Jesus is the Son of God, and multiple people witnessed His amazing life and wrote about it, under the divine inspiration of God. That is what I believe.
Do you ever wonder why there is not secular verification or even comment about all those zombies walking around Jerusalem after the crucifixion?
That would have been quiet the spectacular event, and one would think that there would have been a plethora of written records and comments about it.
But nothing until almost 70 years after the supposed event.
Again, Jesus didn't believe the Scripture was poetry or allegory or parables but a history of mankind and God's chosen people. Therefore, I do not either.
Luke is the greatest historian and the most detail-oriented of all the gospel authors and he gave the full genealogy from Adam to Jesus. So if you believe Adam and Eve were fictitious, a lot of other pillars fall away with it, such as Luke and Jesus.
Agreed. Scripture indicates they were real people.
::Sigh:: I am really losing faith in the rationality and sanity of humanity the more I interact with fundamentalists. Adam and Eve are protagonists in a depiction of the evolution of spiritual understanding ALL human beings must go through beginning with the knowledge of good and evil. The entire Bible contains depictions of the various spiritual lessons that evolved our understanding of God. It is NOT a history book and it is NOT a science book. It is a chronicle of our species' spiritual evolution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
Again, Jesus didn't believe the Scripture was poetry or allegory or parables but a history of mankind and God's chosen people. Therefore, I do not either.
Luke is the greatest historian and the most detail-oriented of all the gospel authors and he gave the full genealogy from Adam to Jesus. So if you believe Adam and Eve were fictitious, a lot of other pillars fall away with it, such as Luke and Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Agreed. Scripture indicates they were real people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58
How do you know what Jesus believed regarding scripture? Jesus didn't write any books. All you have is what someone wrote about Jesus, >30 years after his death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Nothing needs proven, it needs to be understood so it can be used to heal all of our misconceptions between God and man. So it does not matter a jot to me if it is literal, symbolic or an allegory.
Finally reason prevails . . . thanks pcamps. Why can't they understand that the Bible is written for our edification and understanding of our spiritual evolution . . . NOT a history or science book!
Finally reason prevails . . . thanks pcamps. Why can't they understand that the Bible is written for our edification and understanding of our spiritual evolution . . . NOT a history or science book!
The gospel of Luke lists Adam as a real person. Paul does the same.
Finally reason prevails . . . thanks pcamps. Why can't they understand that the Bible is written for our edification and understanding of our spiritual evolution . . . NOT a history or science book!
You once said that you wanted to help me fight "against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil".
Well, you can start with the bold anytime you'd like, being you're sounding so presumptuous of an authority ..... of course you don't need to if its just another one of those plastic ducks bobbing along moments
Finally reason prevails . . . thanks pcamps. Why can't they understand that the Bible is written for our edification and understanding of our spiritual evolution . . . NOT a history or science book!
If I has to choose between believing you or Jesus, I choose Jesus every time. Jesus knew and believed in the history of the Old Testament and spoke of Noah and Abraham and even the Israelites in the wilderness. But you don't believe the Israelites actually existed so what's the point? Any mature Christian is going to place the words of Christ above the words of Mystic and rightly so.
If I has to choose between believing you or Jesus, I choose Jesus every time. Jesus knew and believed in the history of the Old Testament and spoke of Noah and Abraham and even the Israelites in the wilderness. But you don't believe the Israelites actually existed so what's the point? Any mature Christian is going to place the words of Christ above the words of Mystic and rightly so.
Agreed.
Luke 24
25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
Finally reason prevails . . . thanks pcamps. Why can't they understand that the Bible is written for our edification and understanding of our spiritual evolution . . . NOT a history or science book!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
If I has to choose between believing you or Jesus, I choose Jesus every time. Jesus knew and believed in the history of the Old Testament and spoke of Noah and Abraham and even the Israelites in the wilderness. But you don't believe the Israelites actually existed so what's the point? Any mature Christian is going to place the words of Christ above the words of Mystic and rightly so.
They are NOT my words, they are Paul's. As Paul said in Romans 15:4, ". . .For whatever things have been written, have been written for our instruction." The key here is the word “instruction” . . . not blind acceptance as the infallible Word of God . . . or as history or science texts.
I Corinthians 14:3,
He who prophesies speaks to men for edification, and encouragement, and consolation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Luke 24
25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
Note the bold, jimmie. Christ was NOT referring to EVERYTHING in the scriptures . . . just those that told of HIM!
They are NOT my words, they are Paul's. As Paul said in Romans 15:4, ". . .For whatever things have been written, have been written for our instruction." The key here is the word “instruction” . . . not blind acceptance as the infallible Word of God . . . or as history or science texts.
He does not say anything about the historicity of the Scriptures and being 'for our instruction' does not mean they are only for our instruction.
This passage proves nothing.
Jesus testifies to the historicity of the Old Testament throughout the gospels, far too many to list here. He affirms the existence of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Jonah, Moses, Noah and the Israelites in the wilderness. Not to mention Luke's genealogy. How can you have a genealogy if they were fictitious?
Luke 3:23-38:
Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Finally reason prevails . . . thanks pcamps. Why can't they understand that the Bible is written for our edification and understanding of our spiritual evolution . . . NOT a history or science book!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
They are NOT my words, they are Paul's. As Paul said in Romans 15:4, ". . .For whatever things have been written, have been written for our instruction." The key here is the word “instruction” . . . not blind acceptance as the infallible Word of God . . . or as history or science texts.
I Corinthians 14:3,
He who prophesies speaks to men for edification, and encouragement, and consolation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Luke 24
25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
Note the bold, jimmie. Christ was NOT referring to EVERYTHING in the scriptures . . . just those that told of HIM!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx
He does not say anything about the historicity of the Scriptures and being 'for our instruction' does not mean they are only for our instruction.
This passage proves nothing.
Jesus testifies to the historicity of the Old Testament throughout the gospels, far too many to list here. He affirms the existence of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Jonah, Moses, Noah and the Israelites in the wilderness. Not to mention Luke's genealogy. How can you have a genealogy if they were fictitious?
Luke 3:23-38:
Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Does Luke decieve?
Not deceive . . . use what was believed about the scriptures to validate Christ's spiritual status as Son of God, period. He knew what they believed carnally and He wanted them to know it was always spiritual and about Jesus. You can't teach anything new without attaching it to what is known previously. They were carnal and they only knew carnal things. How else would you move them away from the carnal milk into more solid food.
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Adam and Eve are protagonists in a depiction of the evolution of spiritual understanding ALL human beings must go through beginning with the knowledge of good and evil. The entire Bible contains depictions of the various spiritual lessons that evolved our understanding of God. It is NOT a history book and it is NOT a science book. It is a chronicle of our species' spiritual evolution.
