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I received a post from you, but not an answer to the question.
I asked how crucifying your son on the cross would teach people to not sin, and you answered by saying "it has always been about teaching".
Let me ask again: how does crucifying a person the cross teach other people to not sin?
Obviously it did not teach people because 100% of humanity still sin.
Well how does it take away your sin(for this is what the majority of christians believe)if you still sin ?. Obviously this is not what the cross teaches. Oh i see it covers it up, well let me tell you this, God does not cover up anything, what is done in darkness is shouted from the roof tops.
Hebrews 9:12 YLT
neither through blood of goats and calves, but
through his own blood, did enter in once into the holy places, age-during
redemption having obtained;
Leviticus 17:11 YLT
for the life of the
flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar, to make
atonement for your souls; for it [is] the blood which maketh atonement for
the soul.
Hebrews 9:22 YLT
and with blood almost all things are
purified according to the law, and apart from blood-shedding forgiveness doth
not come.
In the religions of this world, all but Christianity has
blood flowing from the devotees to their gods in order to appease their sins.
But in Christianity, the blood flows from God toward those who are His followers
to cleanse from sin. I think this is a vast difference.
The theme of
blood flow has broadened throughout the scripture. From when Abel gave the
"better" sacrifice of the firstling of his flock---the blood of one animal for
one man for one time.
To the Hebrews as slaves in Egypt when Moses told
each family to sacrifice one lamb without defect and spread the blood on the top
and sides of their door frames so that God would pass over them with the plague
of taking the firstborn of man and beast---the blood of one lamb for one family
for one time.
Once the Temple was built in Jerusalem, Yom Kippur, or
"The Day of Atonement," was the only day of the year in which the inner most
room of the Temple, the Holy of Holies, was entered. The high priest sacrificed
one animal for all the people of one nation--for one year.
The stream of
blood grew from covering one person, to covering one family, to covering one
nation. Now, in these latter days, the Blood of one sacrifice, Jesus, was made
to cover all people for all time.
The theme of blood in Judaism through
Christianity is quite clear.
Well how does it take away your sin(for this is what the majority of
christians believe)if you still sin ?. Obviously this is not what the cross
teaches. Oh i see it covers it up, well let me tell you this, God does not cover
up anything, what is done in darkness is shouted from the roof tops.
John 1:29
The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, "Behold, theLambofGod who takes away the sin ofthe world!
Hebrews 2
6For He did not subject to angels [g]the world to come, concerning which we are speaking. 6 But one has testified somewhere, saying,
6"What is man, that You remember him?
Or the son of man, that You are concerned about him?
7 "You have made him [h]for a little while lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor,
[i]And have appointed him over the works of Your hands;
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet."
For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to Him.
1 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never by the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins?
The Blood sacrifices under the old covenant done by the High Priests annually and did not actually perfect anyone.
Notes: caps from the source
"The fact is, the Day of Atonement COVERED sin, but did not REMOVE sin. This is the meaning of Yom Kippur, the "Day of Atonement." The Hebrew word Kippur means "covering," not removal. In fact, here is the essential difference between the two goats that were chosen for the Day of Atonement ceremony.The first goat was killed, and its blood sprinkled on the mercy seat of the Ark in the Most Holy Place. We learn the reason for the high priest entering the Most Holy Place once a year by reading Leviticus 16:17
17 When he goes in to make atonement
[COVER] in the holy place, no one shall be in the tent of meeting until he comes out, that he may make atonement for himself and for his household and for all the assembly of Israel.
Then the high priest was to lay hands upon the head of the second goat, impute all of the iniquities of the people upon that goat, and send it into the wilderness alive to a solitary place not inhabited by people ]Lev. 16:22This second goat signified the REMOVAL of sin from the people. Its function was entirely different from the first goat, which merely covered sin.
To cover sin means to put it out of sight, much like putting a rug over the dirt in one’s house. To remove sin actually takes the dirt out of the house to make it actually clean.
What then shall we say that Abraham, [a]our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified [b]by works, he has something to boast about, but not [c]before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered.
8 "Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account."
9 Is this blessing then on [d]the circumcised, or on [e]the uncircumcised also? For we say, "Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness." 10 How then was it credited? While he was [f]circumcised, or [g]uncircumcised? Not while [h]circumcised, but while [i]uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [j]he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which [k]he had while uncircumcised.
"As Christians today, we are yet sinners, saved by grace. Our sins have been covered by Jesus' blood, whereby God imputes righteousness to us, calling what is not as though it were (Rom. 4:17). Though we are unrighteous in ourselves, God has made provision by His first work on the Cross to cover our unrighteousness by His blood, so that legally speaking God could call us righteous. This is why the Bible calls believers "saints," even though they may be babes in Christ and still subject to human frailties.There is, however, a second workto come, wherein Christ is sent into the world to remove sin from us, making us actually righteous. This will be the fulfillment of the prophetic law where the second goat was led into the wilderness to remove all sin.
The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, "Behold, theLambofGod who takes away the sin ofthe world!
Hebrews 2
6For He did not subject to angels [g]the world to come, concerning which we are speaking. 6 But one has testified somewhere, saying,
6"What is man, that You remember him?
Or the son of man, that You are concerned about him?
7 "You have made him [h]for a little while lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor,
[i]And have appointed him over the works of Your hands;
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet."
For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to Him.
God bless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Let me ask again: how does crucifying a person the cross teach other people to not sin?
Obviously it did not teach people because 100% of humanity still sin.
Hi Shana, i fully understand your position on it, i just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of the question being put to Mystic by another poster. In other words if it cannot do what Mystic said it cannot do what you are saying here because Finn Jarber like the rest of us still sins.
I could quite easily say, it obviously did not save you from sin, because you still sin. The cross like Mystic says teaches us not to sin, because it points us to God not our sin(which is the only way i know how not to sin, because we are changed into the image we behold)....so the cross is teaching us something.......how to have the ability to no longer sin, rather than to be resigned to "i am a poor old miserable sinner saved by grace that believes although i still sin, i find my comfort in my sin that i am once saved always saved until i go to heaven"..... This is an insult to the power of God.
Did you get a chance to think about this question Mystic?
Perhaps Mystic has other considerations, but I would say that it is not directly teaching people how not to sin, but indirectly by showing what love does and taking away the basis for sinning.
Hi Shana, i fully understand your position on it, i just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of the question being put to Mystic by another poster. In other words if it cannot do what Mystic said it cannot do what you are saying here because Finn Jarber like the rest of us still sins.
I could quite easily say, it obviously did not save you from sin, because you still sin. The cross like Mystic says teaches us not to sin, because it points us to God not our sin(which is the only way i know how not to sin, because we are changed into the image we behold)....so the cross is teaching us something.......how to have the ability to no longer sin, rather than to be resigned to "i am a poor old miserable sinner saved by grace that believes although i still sin, i find my comfort in my sin that i am once saved always saved".
The Cross---and the Resurrection after the Cross--are the only reasons Christianity is alive. No Cross--no Resurrection.
The Cross teaches us obedience even unto to death. Jesus prayed "Let this cup pass from me. Nevertheless, not my will but thine be done." It teaches the depth and breadth of obedience. It teaches that sacrificial blood is the apex of service to others. It teaches just how much God commands us to love our enemies as indicative of the love God has for us.
It paid the price for sin. The wages of sin is death--not the first death--but the second. Wiped away by the blood of the Perfect, Unblemished Lamb.
It is thematic throughout both Old and New Testament. It undergirds all Law in both Testaments. It is foreshadowed in the Old and fulfilled in the New. Remove that theme---and the Bible teaches nothing different than any other religion.
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