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The Cross---and the Resurrection after the Cross--are the only reasons Christianity is alive. No Cross--no Resurrection.
The Cross teaches us obedience even unto to death. Jesus prayed "Let this cup pass from me. Nevertheless, not my will but thine be done." It teaches the depth and breadth of obedience. It teaches that sacrificial blood is the apex of service to others. It teaches just how much God commands us to love our enemies as indicative of the love God has for us.
It paid the price for sin. The wages of sin is death--not the first death--but the second. Wiped away by the blood of the Perfect, Unblemished Lamb.
It is thematic throughout both Old and New Testament. It undergirds all Law in both Testaments. It is foreshadowed in the Old and fulfilled in the New. Remove that theme---and the Bible teaches nothing different than any other religion.
Did i say there was no cross or no point of it ?. The cross teaches that God loves us but not only loves us but how amazingly we are loved by God....... This is what the cross is shouting from the roof tops and which i am an ambassador of. A love demonstrated that gives you boldness( not fear and seeing yourself like a worm in his presence like most other religions)to go to God confidently to find grace and help in time of need to walk in the way he desires all to walk in. Remove the depth, breadth, width and height of the love of God towards the world and you remove the cross with it and you have nothing different to any other religion in the world. I know this is not what you along with many others here believe,for you would rather make it difficult for yourselves by holding onto your misconceptions of God, beat yourself up when you think you have failed God, hold to this belief of obedience rather than giving your attention to the cause of what causes us to live out our lives how God desires to be. Obedience is nothing other than setting your affections on things above, so much so that they become you. All your self belief of " must or you must be obedient to God"will do nothing other than frustrate you and cause you to do the exact opposite to what you want to do. Read Romans 7 if you do not believe me.
I could quite easily say, it obviously did not save you from sin, because you
still sin. The cross like Mystic says teaches us not to sin, because it points
us to God not our sin(which is the only way i know how not to sin, because we
are changed into the image we behold)....so the cross is teaching us
something.......how to have the ability to no longer sin, rather than to be
resigned to "i am a poor old miserable sinner saved by grace that believes
although i still sin, i find my comfort in my sin that i am once saved always
saved".
Hi Pcamps, yes we still sin and Jesus saves us from sin. He took away the sin of the world. As has been shared before, God has already determined that it has happened, although we do not yet see that it has happened.
Just like in the matter of the subjection of all to Him. God says that all things are subject to Him. But we do not yet see all things in subjection to Him. People still rebel against Him but in God's sight and plan, all things are actually subjected to Him. We still sin today, but in God's sight and plan, Jesus took away the sin of the world when He died on the cross.
It is a done deal and when He returns and we are raised and changed, we will have the redemption of our bodies. Then we will no longer sin.
We still sin but in God's eyes, we are righteous because of what Jesus did on the cross. Jesus died for our sins. That is the basic foundation of Christianity. It is of first importance.
As found in 1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures 4 and that He was buried and that He was raised on the third day according to the scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephas and to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time..."
The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, "Behold, theLambofGod who takes away the sin ofthe world!
"i am a poor old miserable sinner saved by grace that believes although i
still sin, i find my comfort in my sin that i am once saved always saved until i
go to heaven"..... This is an insult to the power of God
This is not what is being shared. We do not find comfort in any sin, pcamps. We find comfort in knowing that Jesus died for our sins and that we are being transformed in to His image. We know by faith that we will no longer sin one day. . God bless.
Did i say there was no cross or no point of it ?. The cross teaches that God loves us but not only loves us but how amazingly we are loved by God....... This is what the cross is shouting from the roof tops and which i am an ambassador of. A love demonstrated that gives you boldness( not fear and seeing yourself like a worm in his presence like most other religions)to go to God confidently to find grace and help in time of need to walk in the way he desires all to walk in. Remove the depth, breadth, width and height of the love of God towards the world and you remove the cross with it and you have nothing different to any other religion in the world. I know this is not what you along with many others here believe,for you would rather make it difficult for yourselves by holding onto your misconceptions of God, beat yourself up when you think you have failed God, hold to this belief of obedience rather than giving your attention to the cause of what causes us to live out our lives how God desires to be. Obedience is nothing other than setting your affections on things above, so much so that they become you. All your self belief of " must or you must be obedient to God"will do nothing other than frustrate you and cause you to do the exact opposite to what you want to do. Read Romans 7 if you do not believe me.
Neither was I being contentious with your line that I supplemented with historicity. But if you wish to be contentious, let us return to the "God does not hate" thread so that you may further deny the historicity presented there.
This is not what is being shared. We do not find comfort in any sin, pcamps. We find comfort in knowing that Jesus died for our sins and that we are being transformed in to His image. We know by faith that we will no longer sin one day. . God bless.
Hi Shana, what i meant by comfort in sin,is comforting ourselves with i am a poor old sinner saved by grace once saved always saved,, which is an insult to the cross, and which whether you like it or not many live in that state of mind. Also by holding to that state of mind it is impossible to transformed into his image, for we are transformed by realizing that Jesus Christ(our true identity) is what and who we are. In other words the image we are beholding really is ourselves, so in looking at Jesus Christ what we are really looking at is mirror which is reflecting back who we are. The problem is we look in the mirror of Adam and Adam reflects our old man, but i choose to look to the mirror that reflects who i really am, and i refuse to look into the mirror of Adam, for i am not Adam.
Neither was I being contentious with your line that I supplemented with historicity. But if you wish to be contentious, let us return to the "God does not hate" thread so that you may further deny the historicity presented there.
Contentious for being in disagreement with you ?. Yet you end this post with something contentious. Whatever you say. History does not prove God, faith expressed in love does. This is why Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father, for he expressed God through love.
Perhaps Mystic has other considerations, but I would say that it is not directly teaching people how not to sin, but indirectly by showing what love does and taking away the basis for sinning.
So, you think God planned the execution of His only son to show us an indirect point, which most people don't see if they tried. What exactly would such act accomplish, considering the fact that sinning continues? A lot of people can set examples for others.
The truth is He showed His love for us by sacrificing His son in order to accomplish something which no man can do. He did it He did it to pay the price, to remove the penalty of sin from those who believe in Him. He did it so we can have eternal life.
The sacrifice of Jesus is a core teaching in Christianity and many universalists reject it, and even call it vile. I am happy to see there is at least one universalist who is not rejecting it.
So, you think God planned the execution of His only son to show us an indirect point, which most people don't see if they tried. What exactly would such act accomplish, considering the fact that sinning continues? A lot of people can set examples for others.
The truth is He showed His love for us by sacrificing His son in order to accomplish something which no man can do. He did it He did it to pay the price, to remove the penalty of sin from those who believe in Him. He did it so we can have eternal life.
The sacrifice of Jesus is a core teaching in Christianity and many universalists reject it, and even call it vile. I am happy to see there is at least one universalist who is not rejecting it.
No, Finn, you MISS the DIRECT point by focusing on sin. The direct point is God's love for us and His provision for restoration of community with Him when we have failed to live in that love. That lesson is anything BUT vile, it is the idea of Jesus as a "whipping boy" or "scapegoat" for mankind that is vile.
Hi Shana, what i meant by comfort in sin,is comforting ourselves with i am a
poor old sinner saved by grace once saved always saved,, which is an insult to
the cross, and which whether you like it or not many live in that state of mind.
Hi pcamps, just because someone may have this attitude doesn't change what actually happened when Jesus died on the cross. We can't control how other people see it.
Quote:
Also by holding to that state of mind it is impossible to transformed into his
image, for we are transformed by realizing that Jesus Christ(our true identity)
is what and who we are. In other words the image we are beholding really is
ourselves, so in looking at Jesus Christ what we are really looking at is mirror
which is reflecting back who we are. The problem is we look in the mirror of
Adam and Adam reflects our old man, but i choose to look to the mirror that
reflects who i really am, and i refuse to look into the mirror of Adam, for i am
not Adam."
Pcamps, I don't believe that we are Jesus Christ, but we are being transformed into His image. 2 Corin. 3:18. Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man and He reconciles us to the Father. Adam, the old man, still resides in us because we still sin, although our purpose is not to yield to it. Our goal is to live a life that is pleasing to the Lord. We are not to practice a life of sin but if we say that we have no sin, then we are not being truthful with ourselves. Do you believe that you never sinned and that you never sin?
Jesus actually died for sinners not for people who only believe that they are sinners. We have actually done wrong and need to be saved, delivered from sin. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 08-02-2014 at 10:47 AM..
Hi pcamps, just because someone may have this attitude doesn't change what actually happened when Jesus died on the cross. We can't control how other people see it.
Pcamps, I don't believe that we are Jesus Christ, but we are being transformed into His image. 2 Corin. 3:18. Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man and He reconciles us to the Father. Adam, the old man, still resides in us because we still sin, although our purpose is not to yield to it. Our goal is to live a life that is pleasing to the Lord. We are not to practice a life of sin but if we say that we have no sin, then we are not being truthful with ourselves.
Jesus actually died for sinners not for people who only believe that they are sinners. We have actually done wrong and need to be saved, delivered from son. God bless.
Shana, what happened on the cross?. Of cause we cannot control how others see it.
For It is God who lets his light shine out of darkness and makes his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of His glory displayed in the face of Christ.
I think one day you will realize that All that Jesus Christ is, is your true identity.
The image according to Paul is the image we are changing into. What is the image we are beholding that we are being changed into Shana?.
But we all, with uncovered face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
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