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Oh give over. Scripture tells us that God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Plus this is rich coming from someone who does not accept that the bible is infallible.
None of us know Jesus Christ in the flesh, we know him by the spirit if we do know him, you just happen to think the bible proves God.
God was drawing me way before i ever opened a bible. And he was never drawing me to a bible, or an historic Jesus but one that could be sought and known within.
No, did God speak into your ear and tell you of Jesus Christ? Why have their been thousands of missionaries first telling people about Jesus Christ? Did any missionary ever record that he reached a civilization that had by osmosis learned of Jesus? Not anywhere, not once.
No--you LEARNED IT FROM THE BIBLE or from someone who had read a Bible. Then you began to cut it up to fit your belief system. The parts you like--you call spirit. The parts you do not--you call "flesh," or "savage," or any other of the terms used to undermine the theme of scripture--which is that Christ bled and died for our sins. Even Shana understands this!! While she and I may not agree on the picture of hell, she has a definite eye for the centrality of God's sacrifice--which we learn FROM THE BOOK!!!
The Bible IS the recorded history of faith. It is not a science book or a history book in the sense that we understand history today--but it IS the history of faith. You would not even be aware of Jesus Christ if someone had not told you about Him--and somewhere, someone--got it from the Book.
from the Christian Universalist website, Merciful Truth, on the use of the word "hate"
"Rom 3:23 ALL HAVE SINNED, and come short of the glory of God; Isa 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned EVERY ONE to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. That means you. That means me. That means "every one." That means, according to the Bible, God hates ALL, because ALL have been "workers of iniquity." Are you with me so far?2 Corinthians 5:14
For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead.
Everyone was dead in sin. However, Paul said: when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. (Romans 5:6). That is quite loving, no?
No, did God speak into your ear and tell you of Jesus Christ? Why have their been thousands of missionaries first telling people about Jesus Christ? Did any missionary ever record that he reached a civilization that had by osmosis learned of Jesus? Not anywhere, not once.
No--you LEARNED IT FROM THE BIBLE or from someone who had read a Bible. Then you began to cut it up to fit your belief system. The parts you like--you call spirit. The parts you do not--you call "flesh," or "savage," or any other of the terms used to undermine the theme of scripture--which is that Christ bled and died for our sins. Even Shana understands this!! While she and I may not agree on the picture of hell, she has a definite eye for the centrality of God's sacrifice--which we learn FROM THE BOOK!!!
The Bible IS the recorded history of faith. It is not a science book or a history book in the sense that we understand history--but it IS the history of faith. You would not even be aware of Jesus Christ if someone had not told you about Him--and somewhere, someone--got it from the Book.
If you only stood back and listened to what you saying, when you do not believe that bible is the infallible word of God yourself. Jesus Christ is the spirit( all that God is) of God, not a jewish man with a beard that we say we believe in. I will defend scriptures like the next person but no more from a concept of God that God hates his enemies, because that kind of a belief causes the scriptures to be a means to destroy you rather than confirm the reality that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh.
Webite of Christian Universalist Ray Smith, who passed on a couple of years ago:
The truth of Christ's suffering sacrifice and offering is not difficult to understand: "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures" (I Cor. 15:3). Not just the body of Christ, but Jesus Christ Himself died for our sins.
The Savior of All Christian Universalism website (caps from the website)
"Consider carefully some facts stated about this gospel. "It is the gospel of God concerning His Son" (Romans 1:1,2). It was made known to the Apostle Paul through a revelation of Jesus Christ (Gal.1:6-12). "In it the righteousness of God is revealed" (Rom.1:17). "It is the POWER of God unto SALVATION" (Rom.1:16); the POWER that saves the irreverent and unrighteousness from the condemnation and wrath of God (Rom.3:21-5:19); the POWER that saves true believers from the reign of Sin in their lives (Rom.6:1-23). .. In its simplest form this gospel is stated in 1 Corinthians 15:1-7 as follows: "Now I AM MAKING KNOWN to you, brethren, THE GOSPEL which I bring to you, which YOU ACCEPTED also, in which YOU STAND also, through which YOU ARE SAVED . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was entombed, and that He has been raised the third day . . . and that He was seen by Cephas, thereupon by the Twelve, thereupon He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once."
Preston Eby's website: Kingdom Bible Studies :Savior of the World Series (caps from website)
"In his statement to Timothy, Paul gives us the key to the seeming delay in the blessing of the whole race with the life-giving streams of that precious fountain flowing from Immanuel's veins. He says that Christ "gave Himself a ransom for ALL, TO BE TESTIFIED IN DUE TIME." In I Jn. 2:2 the apostle John makes it clear that "Christ is the propitiation (satisfaction) for OUR sins; and NOT FOR OURS ONLY, but also for THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD." Thus it is plain to all who have eyes to see that the application of the merit of Christ's sacrifice on behalf of sin is to be made in TWO SEPARATE PARTS - first for "ours"; that is, for the members of Christ's own body; and then, later, in due time "for the sins of the whole world." Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1
Jerwade, Jesus told his disciples what was going to happen to Him.
The crucifixion of Jesus was the reason that He was sent.
Shana, you have a wonderful heart and look for the good in every thing which includes people.
However, I believe it was his response to the crucifixion, which carried more weight.
"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
Perhaps, it's just a matter of having a good balance, while exhibiting some humility.
Instead of people coming across as self-righteous within the realm of their beliefs.
In a world immersed in error:
"It is not an easy thing for people to believe that God washed away ALL the SINS of Humanity."
In the Final Analysis ALL will be set free from the bondage of sin and death, not just a few.
The Sovereignty Series, Ross McKay, Christian Universalism website, (caps and black bold from website)
John not only clearly heard, but also saw the Spirit of God come upon Him..."remaining upon Him." Jn.1:32,33. Later, Christ revealed His own heavenly origin saying, "I proceeded forth and came from God,neither came I OF MYSELF, but He (my Father)sent me." Jn.8:42; 7:28:29. Not just because He originally willed it, but also because His Fatherwilled and ordained it. In the flesh, Christ knew of His body’s foreordained sinless crucifixion, death, and resurrection (Jn.12:32,33), stating as a matter of fact to the unbelieving Jews, "When ye have lifted up the Son of Man, then shall ye know that I am He (one with the Father..Jn.8:19,24; 10:30,38) and thatI DO NOTHING OF MYSELF, but as my Father taught Me, I speak thesethings. And He that sent Me is WITH ME : the Father hath not left me alone (Jn.8:16; 16:32), for I DO ALWAYS THE THINGS THAT PLEASE HIM." Jn.8:28,29. Because He was foreordained to be the Father’s unblemished sacrificial Lamb (Jn.1:29; Rev.13:8)), the Father wanted it recorded unto the world through John, that Jesus the Christ was His beloved Son, in whom He had a right to be well pleased - Matt.3:17.[/SIZE]
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