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Old 08-03-2014, 02:43 PM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,726,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Finn, it is not Mystic you are getting contradictory views from, it is your own failure to understand the perceptions explained to you and your need to force what has been explained into a box not made for those perceptions.
The clarity of mind you possess is very encouraging, nate. Thanks brother.Still can't rep you yet.

 
Old 08-03-2014, 02:46 PM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,087,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I can see that my efforts to educate you about the origin of those emotions fell on the deaf ears of a guilt-ridden Spirit. I am sorry I could not reach you, brother. God does NOT Will everything that happens. That is primitive thinking inherited from our ignorant ancestors.
And it is definitely rooted in guilt, and in my opinion proof that they do not even believe their own doctrines on blood sacrifices, for if they did, they would not speak from guilt.
 
Old 08-03-2014, 02:46 PM
 
Location: USA
17,156 posts, read 11,306,202 times
Reputation: 2375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
God is more complex than the condensed version you would boil Him down into.
You keep saying that as if it's news to any of us. Of course God is more complex than what gets boiled down into a post on a message board, or even a million posts (whether they be Mystic's or yours). But because God is complex, it does not follow that God must be self-contradictory, it does not follow that God loves us but must also condemn most of us to an eternity of torment, it does not follow that God is love, but must also hate us.
 
Old 08-03-2014, 02:52 PM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,087,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
You keep saying that as if it's news to any of us. Of course God is more complex than what gets boiled down into a post on a message board, or even a million posts (whether they be Mystic's or yours). But because God is complex, it does not follow that God must be self-contradictory, it does not follow that God loves us and but must also condemn most of us to an eternity of torment, it does not follow that God is love, but must also hate us.
I do not believe God really is complex. I mean, how complex is "if you have seen me you have seen the Father" ?. What is it we are seeing when we behold Jesus Christ, if it is not all that God is?. We have turned God into an absent complex being, rather than a recognizable ever present help in time of trouble(trouble being the time we live in these earthly vessels).
 
Old 08-03-2014, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,959 posts, read 47,272,488 times
Reputation: 14767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
You keep saying that as if it's news to any of us. Of course God is more complex than what gets boiled down into a post on a message board, or even a million posts (whether they be Mystic's or yours). But because God is complex, it does not follow that God must be self-contradictory, it does not follow that God loves us but must also condemn most of us to an eternity of torment, it does not follow that God is love, but must also hate us.
Do you believe God planned the crucifixion of Jesus?
 
Old 08-03-2014, 03:23 PM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,087,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Do you believe God planned the crucifixion of Jesus?
Do you believe God planned to save all by the crucifixion of Jesus ?.
 
Old 08-03-2014, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,656,145 times
Reputation: 4674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
You keep saying that as if it's news to any of us. Of course God is more complex than what gets boiled down into a post on a message board, or even a million posts (whether they be Mystic's or yours). But because God is complex, it does not follow that God must be self-contradictory, it does not follow that God loves us but must also condemn most of us to an eternity of torment, it does not follow that God is love, but must also hate us.
Do you get angry with people? Do you still love them? Is that a contradictory emotion or simply two sides of your persona?

What is even more difficult to grasp is why a self-professed "non-Christian" needs to chime in on the Christian thread. Is there not something contradictory in that?

People ARE complex. Just as their Maker is complex. We follow our Creator in that sense.

The question is whether or not one wishes to be obedient--or to constantly inform God about His mistakes in revealing Himself through history.

No matter how many times it is repeated, you are not getting the picture of a God who HATES sin and sinners, but DESPITE that hate, made a way for them to be ADOPTED back into His family. That is not contradictory--it is grace and mercy. We deserve anything God decides to put on us (read Job), but in spite of what we deserve, He has given us His Son.

It is far greater than the pitiful picture of a God without justice, without holiness, with demands of living a sanctified life. Just a butterfly picture of God floating around as a "spirit" who loves.

God is the Ground for all Being, and is far more complex than any of us can comprehend. Condensing Him down into a canned formula is the human foible of "classifying" everything mentally so that it can be easier grasped.

Being born again is much more difficult than giving birth. It is done with spiritual travail and inner conflicts and much soul-searching. It does not appear many here have had that experience--for that would bring a vision of a far more complex God.

Shana has pointed out verse after verse after verse about the propitiation of Jesus on the cross. But as emphatic and persistent as she has been, most posting on this thread simply ignore it, explain it away, reject it--because it is too complex for the simplicity with which they wish to view God.
 
Old 08-03-2014, 04:38 PM
 
Location: USA
17,156 posts, read 11,306,202 times
Reputation: 2375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Do you get angry with people? Do you still love them? Is that a contradictory emotion or simply two sides of your persona?

What is even more difficult to grasp is why a self-professed "non-Christian" needs to chime in on the Christian thread. Is there not something contradictory in that?

People ARE complex. Just as their Maker is complex. We follow our Creator in that sense.

The question is whether or not one wishes to be obedient--or to constantly inform God about His mistakes in revealing Himself through history.

No matter how many times it is repeated, you are not getting the picture of a God who HATES sin and sinners, but DESPITE that hate, made a way for them to be ADOPTED back into His family. That is not contradictory--it is grace and mercy. We deserve anything God decides to put on us (read Job), but in spite of what we deserve, He has given us His Son.

It is far greater than the pitiful picture of a God without justice, without holiness, with demands of living a sanctified life. Just a butterfly picture of God floating around as a "spirit" who loves.

God is the Ground for all Being, and is far more complex than any of us can comprehend. Condensing Him down into a canned formula is the human foible of "classifying" everything mentally so that it can be easier grasped.

Being born again is much more difficult than giving birth. It is done with spiritual travail and inner conflicts and much soul-searching. It does not appear many here have had that experience--for that would bring a vision of a far more complex God.

Shana has pointed out verse after verse after verse about the propitiation of Jesus on the cross. But as emphatic and persistent as she has been, most posting on this thread simply ignore it, explain it away, reject it--because it is too complex for the simplicity with which they wish to view God.
And you, still, are belittling the power of love -- which belittles the God who IS love -- by continuing to insist that love somehow has nothing to do with holiness or sanctification. You seem to think that hate and anger have the power to transform, but love is ... what? Impotent?

Anyway, please tell me why it's difficult for you to accept/grasp that a non-Christian is chiming in on this thread. Why is it important to you that I maintain my distance?
 
Old 08-03-2014, 04:49 PM
 
Location: USA
17,156 posts, read 11,306,202 times
Reputation: 2375
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I do not believe God really is complex. I mean, how complex is "if you have seen me you have seen the Father" ?. What is it we are seeing when we behold Jesus Christ, if it is not all that God is?. We have turned God into an absent complex being, rather than a recognizable ever present help in time of trouble(trouble being the time we live in these earthly vessels).
I agree with that pcamps. Some people seem hell-bent on convincing us that God is far from us.
 
Old 08-03-2014, 05:00 PM
 
8,110 posts, read 6,851,897 times
Reputation: 8253
Those who know love, know God...

Those who KNOW love.


There are many who do not KNOW love. Therefore they continue to misunderstand it's absolute power.
And continue to misunderstand God.

No amount of discussing will do any good.
Discussions are excellent, don't get me wrong.
But what I'm saying is...
Love needs to be experienced.
Not just talked about.


The two GREAT commands were shared/given for a reason:
Love God with all of your heart and soul. - This command is for our benefit, (not God's ego.lol.) To BEGIN to even FATHOM to love ANYTHING with all of your heart, mind and soul... you must first BEGIN to KNOW and understand that thing. The first command is a push for us to get to SEEK. Seek out what LOVE is. (when studying, meditating on, pondering LOVE we are getting to know the Creator. Again, those who know love, know God for God is love.)

The second command Love your neighbor as yourself. Take the knowledge of love and let it expand into the world.

The reason many people still have such a small, and tunnel-vision (anger, wrath, human emotions, etc.) view of God is because they do NOT know Love. They may think they know love, but they Do NOT know it in all of it's glorious and unfathomable POWER. If they did... they would understand the phrase "God IS love." And understand the excruciatingly embarrasingly ridiculousness of all of the "God is angry. God hates this and God hates that... God will not be mocked... God's justice is his wrath! God will have his revenge!!!!! grrrrrrrr" nonsense.

Love overcomes ALL.
All of the non-love within us.
And all of the confusion within us...
That is what gives me great peace.
Having absolute certainty that the confusion and the non-love is a temporary condition.
Every knee will bow and all will come to the knowledge of TRUTH.

God is LOVE.

peace,
sparrow
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