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For me, "love conquers all" means that there is nothing we have done that separates us from God's love. But we have to, in our nature to the best of our ability, accept God's love. If people blaspheme the Holy Spirit by having such a hardness of heart that they are unable to accept God's love, then they have chosen to reject heaven and hence, have chosen hell.
It would be like if two people accumulated a million dollars in debt. Forgiveness for this debt was offered to both of them (God's all-conquering love.) The first person was super grateful for the debt forgiveness. The second person refused to listen, openly mocked the prospect, and was stuck with the debt.
In my understanding, if we don't have at least a prospect for hell, then sin doesn't matter. Sin does matter though. There are a lot of injustices in this world that as Christians, we need to work towards to improve everybody's lives.
Hi Sharks,
Thanks for answering.
I think a very key thing here, is where you say "If we don't have at least a prospect for hell, then sin doesn't matter." Why do you think this? WHy do you think that there needs to be a threat of torture, in order for sin to matter? You also said there is nothing we have done that separates us from God's love, yet you turn around and say "BUT..." "But we have TO... ACCEPT God's love.." You just cancelled out "nothing separates us from God's love" with your "BUT.. you HAVE TO.."
Hell has its own religion too. Jesus said the scribes and Pharisees were children of hell. There was none more religious then them boys, in fact they loved the scriptures that much on their garments they had sown phylacteries. Look !!!!!! We are bible believers.
Which ' hell ' lasts forever ? __________ The non-biblical permanent religious-myth hell just taught as Scripture, or the Bible's temporary hell where Jesus went the day Jesus died ?_________Acts 2 vs 27,31,32
Revelation 20 vs 13,14 mentions the Bible's hell as temporary because after everyone in hell is ' delivered up ' [ resurrected ] out of hell, then emptied-out hell is cast into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated biblical hell.
No. You must be looking at a translation such as the KJV perhaps? A bad translation for discussions of the afterlife, since KJV "Hell" is redefined from the original concepts of the underworld, such as Hades or She'ol common in those days. But, regarding Rev. 20, "Hell" and the Lake of Fire are two different things - despite the high church revisionism of the original concept of the temporary underworld of the dead... to the concept of the eternal Lake of Fire.
The Book of Revelation makes a unique, explicit claim to be directly revealed to the writer by Jesus, in terms of it's contents and authority.
What is contained in the Book of Revelation about the Lake of Fire and the nature of the final judgement of the wicked before the throne of God is essentially a NEWLY REVEALED wisdom never shared by Jesus during his life in such specific detail THAT WE KNOW OF. It embellishes on what is recorded in the gospels that he taught. This is why it is called "The Book of Revelation". Essentially Jesus dispenses with faulty scenarios of the afterlife AND murky wisdom of the teachers of the Law - and clearly lays out God's ultimate plan of judgement and afterlife in specific unequivocal language not seen in the OT or the gospels. It is clear he wants to eliminate the confusion in the church resulting from too many similar heresies and alien faiths being blended with incomplete Hebrew teachings.
The Orthodox Jews traditionally had no specific opinion about the final fate of wicked people, whether they were eternally in She'ol or annihilated utterly. She'ol is a place similar to the Greek Hades, but is a temporary place of punishment and purification. The Jews also believed in a bodily resurrection of the dead from She-ol and eternal life for the righteous after the coming of the Messiah. In the perfect world of peace and prosperity, the righteous dead will be brought back to life and the wicked dead will remain in She'ol or be destroyed. The interpretations vary among Jewish sects.
The 1st Century church possessed a multi-cultural mish-mash of afterlife beliefs plus the Messianic doctrines that Jesus preached. After John received revelation from Jesus in 70 a.d., in the post-apostolic era, Christian "Hell" devolved to a blending of temporary "She'ol" and the eternal Lake of Fire into a confused picture such as you presented. Two concepts, one big muddled mess that persists even today in the minds of people. Or it causes people to reject it all or make up their own understandings.
From the Jewish dictionary:
Hell
The place of spiritual punishment and/or purification for the wicked dead in Judaism is not referred to as Hell, but as Gehinnom or She'ol. According to most sources, the period of punishment or purification is limited to 12 months, after which the soul ascends to Olam Ha-Ba or is destroyed (if it is utterly wicked).
She'ol
A place of spiritual punishment and/or purification for a period of up to 12 months after death. Often referred to as Gehinnom (Gehenna).
Last edited by Led Zeppelin; 08-09-2014 at 08:01 AM..
Here is one Jewish view of hell (Gehinnom (Gehenna)) .It exists and has a higher purpose. It is not permanent but is described as a hospital for the soul.
I believe that Sheol and Hades, which are translated as "hell", in some translations refer to the grave or the Unseen state. It is the condition of the dead until they are raised. I do not believe that it is a conscious condition, but I do believe that many will experience "hell" as this relates to the judgments of God. There is a higher purpose for destruction and punishment. It will cause them to see their lost condition and their need for God and this will lead to their eventual restoration to God. God bless.
Psalm 90:3Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
3 Thou turnest man unto a bruised thing, And sayest, Turn back, ye sons of men.
Psalm 90:3New American Standard Bible (NASB)
3
You turn man back into dust
And say, “Return, O children of men.”
Psalm 90:3New King James Version (NKJV)
3
You turn man to destruction,
And say, “Return, O children of men.”
Welcome to CD and the religion forum Unconcerned! This sounds like you believe in the concept of annihilation, and I do as well (see my post on page 1). It all seems to depend on what one's definition of "hell" really is.
I don't see how you arrived at that. Absolutely not. I am UR. All will be called forth from their graves - not from any place of punishing. Even the sea will give up its dead. Is the sea on fire? In the 18th century, the people in England put their apples in "hell" (a hole in the ground) for keeping. All one need do is study the Scriptures with a clear mind for himself/herself and cast away church dogma. Indeed, the wonderful plan of our Creator is to have all mankind be saves as the Scriptures plainly teach.
Here is one Jewish view of hell (Gehinnom (Gehenna)) .It exists and has a higher purpose. It is not permanent but is described as a hospital for the soul.
I believe that Sheol and Hades, which are translated as "hell", in some translations refer to the grave or the Unseen state. It is the condition of the dead until they are raised. I do not believe that it is a conscious condition, but I do believe that many will experience "hell" as this relates to the judgments of God. There is a higher purpose for destruction and punishment. It will cause them to see their lost condition and their need for God and this will lead to their eventual restoration to God. God bless.
It is interesting to note that the KJV finds the word "hell" in about 30 places in the OT, whereas most modern translations like NIV find it not at all in the OT and only in the NT, in about 15 places on average. The KJV overuses the word and the church corrupted the meaning of the word for 1800 years.
Inaccurate translation, the misapplication of the word "hell", and about 1900 years of faulty church doctrine about Hell, all combine together is why there is so much confusion about and outright rejection of Jesus' orthodox teachings.
I don't see how you arrived at that. Absolutely not. I am UR. All will be called forth from their graves - not from any place of punishing. Even the sea will give up its dead. Is the sea on fire? In the 18th century, the people in England put their apples in "hell" (a hole in the ground) for keeping. All one need do is study the Scriptures with a clear mind for himself/herself and cast away church dogma. Indeed, the wonderful plan of our Creator is to have all mankind be saves as the Scriptures plainly teach.
There is a problem with your assertion.
Given the fact that the scriptures were written by JEWS and Jewish converts to Christ...
... and given the fact the scriptures are used by billions of Jews, Christians and even Muslims to support their views of the afterlife...
....and given the fact that all 3 faiths have essentially the same understanding of the afterlife on the issue of the judgement, the world to come and the punishment of the wicked... spanning more than 3 millinea...
it is far-fetched in the extreme to believe that your interpretation of the same scriptures is the correct one, to the exclusion of the 99 percent who hold something akin to orthodoxy.
And I'm only speaking about your idea of universal salvation versus theirs.
Most people are there most of the time. Sometimes we open up to people around us unselfishly, and find moments of being in the kingdom during those times.
But most people are in darkness the rest of the time.
It is interesting to note that the KJV finds the word "hell" in about 30 places in the OT, whereas most modern translations like NIV find it not at all in the OT and only in the NT, in about 15 places on average. The KJV overuses the word and the church corrupted the meaning of the word for 1800 years.
Inaccurate translation, the misapplication of the word "hell", and about 1900 years of faulty church doctrine about Hell, all combine together is why there is so much confusion about and outright rejection of Jesus' orthodox teachings.
One might suppose that with most folks now being somewhat educated, that they would eventually put aside many of the old church dogmas which render our Bibles as books of science fiction and nursery rhymes. For example:
Folks burning away in a fiery place of punishment. Any educated person should realize that our Father would never cause one person who stole a loaf of bread to undergo a thousand years of torture while another would only see a day of torture assuming Christ returned the day following the second thief's death.
Christ knew nothing at all when he died. He was dead and the dead know nothing. He was not with a thief in a place called Paradise in the center of an earth whose center is a fireball of molten nickel. Ridiculous.
The Rapture theory is totally a false doctrine.
To be absent from the body IS to be with the Lord. Totally false. It's not even what the Scripture says in the first place. When you die, you are dead and know nothing. You are in a state of rest until Christ's return or even later.
Physical super bodies: False. If you are saved, you will be raised with a spirit body, a body unable to be seen by the human optics. If you are not saved, you will be raised at some time or another with a physical human body.
Lazarus and the Rich man proves there is a hell and proves Moses is presently in heaven. No one is in heaven or in a fiery place called Hell. Study the parable for what it was intended to teach - not what your church wants it to teach. Take it in context.
Everybody that is saved are heaven bound. No. False. Christ is returning to establish his kingdom on the earth. The risen saints will be on this earth assisting in bringing all of the rest of mankind to salvation. They will serve on this earth as kings, priests, and judges. God, the Father, will come to earth himself following Christ's reconciling the world unto Him.
Christians really do need to rise up from the foot of the cross and study to show themselves approved as they have been instructed to do. They have a tremendous job awaiting them serving in the coming Kingdom.
I believe that the apostle Paul was a Jew and he spoke about the eventual salvation of all to God, through Jesus Christ, Led Zeppelin.
Quote:
It is interesting to note that the KJV finds the word "hell" in about 30
places in the OT, whereas most modern translations like NIV find it not at all
in the OT and only in the NT, in about 15 places on average. The KJV overuses
the word and the church corrupted the meaning of the word for 1800
years.
Inaccurate translation, the misapplication of the word "hell",
and about 1900 years of faulty church doctrine about Hell, all combine together
is why there is so much confusion about and outright rejection of Jesus'
orthodox teachings.
I agree. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 08-09-2014 at 09:14 AM..
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