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View Poll Results: Was His death planned, and what was its purpose?
Gos planned it as a settlement for our sins, so that those who believe would have everlasting life 67 67.00%
Not planned by God, but His death still serves as an example and it "restores the community" 2 2.00%
Planned by God in order to release the Holy Spirit to men 5 5.00%
Jesus did not die for our sins, He was murdered 26 26.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-20-2014, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,949 posts, read 47,272,488 times
Reputation: 14761

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I don't. Just exactly WHY was Almighty God NOT able to resolve the situation any other way????? Why does my way NOT resolve the situation more lovingly, logically and reasonably????
Such question reveals the fact that you do not believe God chose the best option. Perhaps you would have done it differently

Any other way would have made God into a liar. He had said the punishment for sin is death, so to suddenly not enforce the law would require a lie. It is impossible for God to lie, and it was impossible for men to fulfill the law. Someone had to fulfill it, so God sent us the "Lamb of God", the only one who can fulfill the law, and who was the ultimate and final sacrifice, which would settle the requirement of death for all of us. He did it because He loved us, and He wanted to provide a way for us to have eternal life with Him.
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Old 08-20-2014, 05:59 PM
 
Location: california
7,289 posts, read 6,868,811 times
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Default You should read John 15; all

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
The point is, you view them as being something they are not. God's will is stronger than man's. He is the Savior not maybe your savior, he will draw all men, his desire is his will, he always accomplishes that which he desires, yes i know Finn jarber that he desires us not to sin, and one day this will be realized whether you like it or not or agree with it or not.

God made a choice too if you want to pitch the choice of man against his, his choice was to save the world,, so quit trying to lift the will and choice of man over the will and choice of God.
God removes leaches off His son.
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,949 posts, read 47,272,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Finn, you are changing the goal posts. Nothing was said about a jury making a wrong decision, the point was made that by the law Jesus was guilty even though He was not guilty of wrongdoing. The charge was blasphemy in that as a man He was making himself equal to God: guilty as charged even though it was true. He was killed for it. The Law failed to take into account the circumstances and it was wrong. Law in itself simply can't take sch circumstances into account, and as such is inadequate to judge us. You DO understand that we are NOT judged by Law, don't you?
Finn, saying that this is not as bad an injustice as another does not address the point that it IS an injustice. So, I assume that you are acknowledging that your explanation makes God out to be unjust?
The law of God was not followed, it was abused by corrupt people who framed Jesus for crimes He did not commit. I am not moving the goal posts, I am still asking the same question, because this "law invalidation" theory does not even begin to explain the issue.
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,832,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The law of God was not followed, it was abused by corrupt people who framed Jesus for crimes He did not commit. I am not moving the goal posts, I am still asking the same question, because this "law invalidation" theory does not even begin to explain the issue.
Ok, Finn. You don't buy that. Now let's examine your explanation that implicates God in injustice in depth. Is injustice an attribute of God?
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:06 PM
 
Location: california
7,289 posts, read 6,868,811 times
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I think your arguing over things you should be finding from God , not from men. IMHO
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,832,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
I think your arguing over things you should be finding from God , not from men. IMHO
The point, Arleigh, is that some of these people claim we are not Christian unless we subscribe to theories that make God appear monstrous when analyzed. It is only those exclusionary "circles" I am attempting to debunk.
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:12 PM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,726,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I don't. Just exactly WHY was Almighty God NOT able to resolve the situation any other way????? Why does my way NOT resolve the situation more lovingly, logically and reasonably????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Such question reveals the fact that you do not believe God chose the best option. Perhaps you would have done it differently
Any other way would have made God into a liar. He had said the punishment for sin is death, so to suddenly not enforce the law would require a lie.
There is no lie involved . . . just ignorant primitive misunderstanding. When God said if they ate of the Tree of Life (knowing Good and Evil) they would surely die . . . He was simply acknowledging a fact. We needed to know Good and Evil to produce a Spirit and Spirits are born from our physical death. Death is NOT a punishment. It is a consequence of spiritual birth. Our physical body is merely the "placenta" that is discarded upon our birth as Spirit.
Quote:
It is impossible for God to lie, and it was impossible for men to fulfill the law. Someone had to fulfill it, so God sent us the "Lamb of God", the only one who can fulfill the law, and who was the ultimate and final sacrifice, which would settle the requirement of death for all of us. He did it because He loved us, and He wanted to provide a way for us to have eternal life with Him.
What was impossible was for any of us to produce a perfect Spirit in agape love. That is why we needed Christ to do it for us . . . NOT to pay God some horrendous blood sacrifice! We all still die . . . but that simply means we all are "born again" as Spirit . . . as Christ was. But now we have Christ's perfect Spirit to connect us to God AND as the Comforter to guide us within our consciousness to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,949 posts, read 47,272,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
What was impossible was for any of us to produce a perfect Spirit in agape love. That is why we needed Christ to do it for us . . . NOT to pay God some horrendous blood sacrifice! We all still die . . . but that simply means we all are "born again" as Spirit . . . as Christ was. But now we have Christ's perfect Spirit to connect us to God AND as the Comforter to guide us within our consciousness to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
If you don't believe He died for our sins, then what did Him showing it to us accomplish?
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:35 PM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,726,177 times
Reputation: 7792
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
There is no lie involved . . . just ignorant primitive misunderstanding. When God said if they ate of the Tree of Life (knowing Good and Evil) they would surely die . . . He was simply acknowledging a fact. We needed to know Good and Evil to produce a Spirit and Spirits are born from our physical death. Death is NOT a punishment. It is a consequence of spiritual birth. Our physical body is merely the "placenta" that is discarded upon our birth as Spirit.
What was impossible was for any of us to produce a perfect Spirit in agape love. That is why we needed Christ to do it for us . . . NOT to pay God some horrendous blood sacrifice! We all still die . . . but that simply means we all are "born again" as Spirit . . . as Christ was. But now we have Christ's perfect Spirit to connect us to God AND as the Comforter to guide us within our consciousness to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
If you don't believe He died for our sins, then what did Him showing it to us accomplish?
He died BECAUSE OF (for) our ancestors' sins (ignorance, savagery and barbarity). It showed us we have nothing to fear from death because it is actually a birth. He unambiguously displayed God's pure agape love for us all . . . despite the most egregious of sinful and savage behavior. It is mercy He wants us to learn . . . NOT barbaric blood sacrifices to Him. He came to call to attention the savage and barbaric sinners we had become . . . completely devoid of agape love.
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Old 08-20-2014, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,949 posts, read 47,272,488 times
Reputation: 14761
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
He died BECAUSE OF (for) our ancestors' sins (ignorance, savagery and barbarity). It showed us we have nothing to fear from death because it is actually a birth. He unambiguously displayed God's pure agape love for us all . . . despite the most egregious of sinful and savage behavior. It is mercy He wants us to learn . . . NOT barbaric blood sacrifices to Him. He came to call to attention the savage and barbaric sinners we had become . . . completely devoid of agape love.
I did not ask what He showed us, I asked how Him showing us stuff accomplished something. If He had managed to teach all that to people, then they would not have killed Him.
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