Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And copied and recopied and changed and altered overt the course of centuries.
You always have that in your back pocket to use when you don't want to deal with the content.
Maybe when you or others quote the "love" verses, I will use your quote and note that the texts have been altered through the years... Jesus probably didn't say that we should love others - look, He overturned tables in the synagogue. He called people sons of the devil.
You always have that in your back pocket to use when you don't want to deal with the content.
Maybe when you or others quote the "love" verses, I will use your quote and note that the texts have been altered through the years... Jesus probably didn't say that we should love others - look, He overturned tables in the synagogue. He called people sons of the devil.
You refuse to deal with the Spirit of what Christ taught and continue to focus on the letter. If Christ's UNAMBIGUOUS demonstration of His perfect agape love was too subtle for you to grasp . . . let me emphasize it. He was SCOURGED brutally and then CRUCIFIED horribly . . . and He LOVED His torturers and murderers . . . NOT just us mere itty bitty sinners!!!! He smote NO ONE! HOW do you reconcile the Spirit of agape love He demonstrated as the TRUE NATURE of God . . . who He said IS agape love . . . with our ignorant ancestors' OT beliefs about a wrathful God . . . OVER EATING A FRUIT!!!! It is time to grow up and abandon the savage and barbaric OT beliefs about God. Put away the childish ideas of our ignorant ancestors and acknowledge how ridiculous their beliefs about God's motives were. Become a true follower of the God Christ unambiguously revealed.
What if Jesus was God, not the son of God? That would change a lot. Christians would have to say God sacrificed himself to save humankind. That, of course, is a big sacrifice. However, it also doesn't make much sense. If God wanted to save humankind, why not just do it. No, that doesn't work. It is much more dramatic to sacrificed a son. How about all those angels, why doesn't God sacrifice them? He could, let's say, sacrifice an angel every hundred years of so. How many angels are there?
Quite a few over the centuries. You really ought to look into the history of perceptions of atonement. The Anselm/Calvin description did not gain ascendancy until fairly late in the game.
The underlined is simply not true for the overwhelming majority of Christians. It's just not true.
Controlling others... figment of the imagination. Nobody is controlling anyone, or attempting to control anyone.
Law of sin and death - it is not done away with as if it no longer exists... Christians are set free from it (Romans 8:2). I will say there should be a more balanced focused with regards to sin and the need for Christ. Sometimes we can goaded into being overly focused on sin.
Perhaps it is not true for even a majority, but there are great numbers of nominal Christians who do not exhibit love beyond their close circles.
Making laws about moral perception that are based ONLY on religion and not practical reasons seems to me to be controlling. Does it not for you?
The Law of sin and death is totally done away with as a basis for judgement. Everyone will be judged by the condition of their heart as demonstrated in their lives.
How do you explain sins being forgiven without the shedding of blood?.Jesus went around forgiving folk without the shedding of blood and you know this to be true.
And copied and recopied and changed and altered overt the course of centuries. NONE, not a one is an original written DIRECTLY by any surviving disciple. The oldest of the documents are multiple copies removed from the original and not all copies are are in tact and complete specimens of the originals.
Quite a few over the centuries. You really ought to look into the history of perceptions of atonement. The Anselm/Calvin description did not gain ascendancy until fairly late in the game.
As has been noted, the mechanics, the process of the Atonement has been explained in a number of ways. Figurative and/or spiritual ideas may be subject to interpretation. The best guide to the value of the different ideas is how they match the basis of the New Covenant found in the New Commandment.
My particular perception is that the execution of Jesus under the Law when He was pure in heart invalidates Law as basis for judgement.
Last edited by nateswift; 05-06-2015 at 11:44 AM..
Reason: addition
As has been noted, the mechanics, the process of the Atonement has been explained in a number of ways. Figurative and/or spiritual ideas may be subject to interpretation. The best guide to the value of the different ideas is how they match the basis of the New Covenant found in the New Commandment.
My particular perception is that the execution of Jesus under the Law when He was pure in heart invalidates Law as basis for judgement.
I don't see how you can get that from a literal reading of a literal event (the last supper). Plus Isaiah 53. Plus Mark 10:45. Plus Acts 20:28. Plus 1 Peter 1:18-19. Etc.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
