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View Poll Results: Was His death planned, and what was its purpose?
Gos planned it as a settlement for our sins, so that those who believe would have everlasting life 67 67.00%
Not planned by God, but His death still serves as an example and it "restores the community" 2 2.00%
Planned by God in order to release the Holy Spirit to men 5 5.00%
Jesus did not die for our sins, He was murdered 26 26.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 08-06-2014, 05:16 AM
 
Location: Florida
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On the other universalist thread we saw all kinds of views about why Jesus died, so I thought I'd open a poll about it and allow people to explain their views a little better.

 
Old 08-06-2014, 06:59 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Sin is an offense against God. God's perfect righteousness can't fellowship with sin. Adam's original sin created a barrier between mankind and God which man is unable to remove. The justice of God executed the penalty for sin which His perfect righteousness demanded - spiritual death, which is separation from God (Rom. 6:23). Adam's sin incurred a debt which was passed down to all mankind. A debt which man simply cannot pay. Man owes God perfect righteousness. When sin entered into the human race he no longer had a righteousness which was acceptable to God. Nothing that imperfect man can do can satisfy the perfect righteousness of God.

But God had a solution to man's sin problem. From eternity past God had always known that Adam would fall, and therefore His plan of salvation called for the Second Person of the Trinity to enter into the human race through a virgin birth and therefore free from sin since the sin nature is passed down through the male. Jesus lived a life free from sin which qualified Him to go to the cross and pay the penalty for our sins. During the last three hours - from 12 noon to 3 PM that Jesus was on the cross He bore the sins of the world in His own body (1 Pet. 2:24). During that time in which God the Father was judging those sins the perfect relationship which Jesus had always had with the Father had to be broken. The Father had to forsake Jesus while He bore our sins (Matt. 27:46; Psalm 22:1). That was His spiritual death which paid the penalty against sin which the righteousness of the Father demanded. When Jesus had been judged for every sin that would ever be committed in human history He said tetelestai - it is finished. Tetelestai is in the Greek Perfect tense which refers to past action completed with the results continuing on in full effect. Tetelestai is also an accounting term which means 'paid in full.' When Jesus said, 'It is finished', He was saying that the penalty for our sins had been paid in full. With His work on the cross finished, Jesus dismissed His spirit from His body and died physically. He was then resurrected three days later.

With the sin problem taken care of, the issue in eternal salvation is not sin but whether or not you will receive Christ as Savior. Although our sins have been paid for by Jesus, our imperfect righteousness is still not acceptable to God. It is only when a person trusts in Jesus Christ for eternal life that God imputes the perfect righteousness of Christ to that person which qualifies him to have an eternal relationship with God. That is why a person can still end up in the lake of fire, forever separated from God despite the fact that his sins were paid for. Jesus is the Savior of the world in that He died for all mankind. But only when a person receives Christ as Savior is he credited or imputed with Jesus' perfect righteousness (Rom. 4:1-25; Gal. 3:16).

Last edited by Michael Way; 08-06-2014 at 07:11 AM..
 
Old 08-06-2014, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,629,107 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Sin is an offense against God. God's perfect righteousness can't fellowship with sin. Adam's original sin created a barrier between mankind and God which man is unable to remove. The justice of God executed the penalty for sin which His perfect righteousness demanded - spiritual death, which is separation from God (Rom. 6:23). Adam's sin incurred a debt which was passed down to all mankind. A debt which man simply cannot pay. Man owes God perfect righteousness. When sin entered into the human race he no longer had a righteousness which was acceptable to God. Nothing that imperfect man can do can satisfy the perfect righteousness of God.

But God had a solution to man's sin problem. From eternity past God had always known that Adam would fall, and therefore His plan of salvation called for the Second Person of the Trinity to enter into the human race through a virgin birth and therefore free from sin since the sin nature is passed down through the male. Jesus lived a life free from sin which qualified Him to go to the cross and pay the penalty for our sins. During the last three hours - from 12 noon to 3 PM that Jesus was on the cross He bore the sins of the world in His own body (1 Pet. 2:24). During that time in which God the Father was judging those sins the perfect relationship which Jesus had always had with the Father had to be broken. The Father had to forsake Jesus while He bore our sins (Matt. 27:46; Psalm 22:1). That was His spiritual death which paid the penalty against sin which the righteousness of the Father demanded. When Jesus had been judged for every sin that would ever be committed in human history He said tetelestai - it is finished. Tetelestai is in the Greek Perfect tense which refers to past action completed with the results continuing on in full effect. Tetelestai is also an accounting term which means 'paid in full.' When Jesus said, 'It is finished', He was saying that the penalty for our sins had been paid in full.

With the sin problem taken care of, the issue in eternal salvation is not sin but whether or not you will receive Christ as Savior. Although our sins have been paid for by Jesus, our imperfect righteousness is still not acceptable to God. It is only when a person trusts in Jesus Christ for eternal life that God imputes the perfect righteousness of Christ to that person which qualifies him to have an eternal relationship with God. That is why a person can still end up in the lake of fire, forever separated from God despite the fact that his sins were paid for. Jesus is the Savior of the world in that He died for all mankind. But only when a person receives Christ as Savior is he credited or imputed with Jesus' perfect righteousness.
Very well explained, as always. Tetelestai indeed
 
Old 08-06-2014, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
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I thought this was settled theology ...
 
Old 08-06-2014, 07:17 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Very well explained, as always. Tetelestai indeed
Thanks Finn.
 
Old 08-06-2014, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,629,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann View Post
I thought this was settled theology ...
I heard all four views this week.
 
Old 08-06-2014, 09:03 AM
 
Location: USA
17,161 posts, read 11,392,298 times
Reputation: 2378
Your poll with only 4 options hardly does the question justice. Many theories of the atonement have been formulated over the centuries. Something else for Christians to quibble over.

Moral Influence Theory
Ransom Theory
Christus Victor Theory
Satisfaction Theory
Penal Substitution Theory
Govermental Theory
Recapitulation Theory


Among others.

Here's some sites:

http://www.theopedia.com/Atonement_of_Christ

A description of various Christian theories on the atonement

A brief introduction to the Theories of the Atonement | Chris Button - Academia.edu
 
Old 08-06-2014, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,629,107 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Your poll with only 4 options hardly does the question justice. Many theories of the atonement have been formulated over the centuries. Something else for Christians to quibble over.

Moral Influence Theory
Ransom Theory
Christus Victor Theory
Satisfaction Theory
Penal Substitution Theory
Govermental Theory
Recapitulation Theory


Among others.

Here's some sites:

http://www.theopedia.com/Atonement_of_Christ

A description of various Christian theories on the atonement

A brief introduction to the Theories of the Atonement | Chris Button - Academia.edu
And your view is.....?
 
Old 08-06-2014, 10:05 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,493,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
On the other universalist thread we saw all kinds of views about why Jesus died, so I thought I'd open a poll about it and allow people to explain their views a little better.
The purpose is explained by Jesus in John 3:1-21.

And what's more Jesus explains how one is saved, whom does the choosing and why people reject.
 
Old 08-06-2014, 10:39 AM
 
Location: USA
17,161 posts, read 11,392,298 times
Reputation: 2378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
And your view is.....?
My view is that the theory of atonement that a Christian gravitates to will be largely determined by their understanding of God's nature and character, or the view of atonement they have been taught will have a great influence on what they believe about God's nature.
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