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I've enjoyed your explanations. I've been given the left hand of fellowship many times for seeking the truth in spite of what a church may be believing. The most amazing instance was when a pastor told me that he knew of truth that he couldn't tell his congregation. All that I could think of, was that he must have been castrated at some time in his life!
Here are some of the Scriptures you have requested . . .
“If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left.” (Hebrews 10:26)
"And everyone who says a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him,
but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven." (Luke 12:10)
"For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame." (Hebrews 6:4-6)
"If anyone catches sight of his brother committing a sin that does not incur death, he will ask, and God will give life to him, yes, to those not committing sin that incurs death. There is a sin that does incur death. It is concerning that sin that I do not tell him to make request." (1 John 5:16)
"For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come." (Matthew 12:32)
This is John 3:16 in three different Bibles:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only and unique Son,
so that everyone who trusts in him may have eternal life,
instead of being utterly destroyed." (CJB)
"This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one & only Son . . .
sothat no one need be destroyed;
by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life." (MSG)
“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in himmight not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (NWT)
"For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.” (John 6:40)
“Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9)
"For evil men will be done away with . . ." (Psalm 37:9)
"Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more . . ." (Psalm 37:10)
"But the wicked will perish . . . vanish . . . vanish like smoke." (Psalm 37:20)
"These . . . will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction." (2 Th. 1:9)
". . . Destruction of the ungodly people . . ." (2 Peter 3:7)
"[The]futureof wicked people willbecut off." (Psalm 37:38)
Last edited by 2Q&Lrn&Hlp; 09-09-2014 at 03:57 AM..
Here are some of the Scriptures you have requested . . .
“If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left.” (Hebrews 10:26)
"And everyone who says a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him,
but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven." (Luke 12:10)
"For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame." (Hebrews 6:4-6)
"If anyone catches sight of his brother committing a sin that does not incur death, he will ask, and God will give life to him, yes, to those not committing sin that incurs death. There is a sin that does incur death. It is concerning that sin that I do not tell him to make request." (1 John 5:16)
"For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come." (Matthew 12:32)
This is John 3:16 in three different Bibles:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only and unique Son,
so that everyone who trusts in him may have eternal life,
instead of being utterly destroyed." (CJB)
"This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one & only Son . . . sothat no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life." (MSG)
“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in himmight not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (NWT)
"For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.” (John 6:40)
“Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9)
"For evil men will be done away with . . ." (Psalm 37:9)
"Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more . . ." (Psalm 37:10)
"But the wicked will perish . . . vanish . . . vanish like smoke." (Psalm 37:20)
"These . . . will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction." (2 Th. 1:9)
". . . Destruction of the ungodly people . . ." (2 Peter 3:7)
"[The]futureof wicked people willbecut off." (Psalm 37:38)
And which of those scriptures is suppose to say that people cannot be saved after death?
Not one of them state it, so only your doctrinal bias cause you to see it.
The doctrines of eternal torment and annihilation simply reject the gospel we are commanded to teach, which is Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN.
Thus both doctrines instead of reconciling their belief with the gospel we are commanded to teach, try to tear that gospel down by quoting scriptures that do not say that not all men will be saved.
Do you not find it strange that what I believe is plainly written in scripture, but that which you believe is not?
Here are some of the Scriptures you have requested . . .
“If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left.” (Hebrews 10:26)
"And everyone who says a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him,
but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven." (Luke 12:10)
"For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame." (Hebrews 6:4-6)
"If anyone catches sight of his brother committing a sin that does not incur death, he will ask, and God will give life to him, yes, to those not committing sin that incurs death. There is a sin that does incur death. It is concerning that sin that I do not tell him to make request." (1 John 5:16)
"For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come." (Matthew 12:32)
This is John 3:16 in three different Bibles:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only and unique Son,
so that everyone who trusts in him may have eternal life,
instead of being utterly destroyed." (CJB)
"This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one & only Son . . .
sothat no one need be destroyed;
by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life." (MSG)
“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in himmight not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (NWT)
"For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.” (John 6:40)
“Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9)
"For evil men will be done away with . . ." (Psalm 37:9)
"Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more . . ." (Psalm 37:10)
"But the wicked will perish . . . vanish . . . vanish like smoke." (Psalm 37:20)
"These . . . will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction." (2 Th. 1:9)
". . . Destruction of the ungodly people . . ." (2 Peter 3:7)
"[The]futureof wicked people willbecut off." (Psalm 37:38)
I'm a universalist, I also teach those verses. I understand that sin is debt and that any sin that is not forgiven remains a debt that must be paid. But I also understand the parable of the unforgiving servant where it shows that the servant was only to be beaten UNTIL he paid the debt.
To use those verses as if to say the sin can never be paid for or that the offense is eternal would mean that the sin would remain and that means that the purpose for which Jesus came (which was to universally rid the universe of sin) would not be accomplished.
Wickedness is only destroyed by the putting on of righteousness.
I'm a universalist, I also teach those verses. I understand that sin is debt and that any sin that is not forgiven remains a debt that must be paid. But I also understand the parable of the unforgiving servant where it shows that the servant was only to be beaten UNTIL he paid the debt.
To use those verses as if to say the sin can never be paid for or that the offense is eternal would mean that the sin would remain and that means that the purpose for which Jesus came (which was to universally rid the universe of sin) would not be accomplished.
Wickedness is only destroyed by the putting on of righteousness.
Correct ... and as Jesus said when the man rejected the wedding clothes provided by the host in preference of his own, the man isn't UR'ed. Matthew 22:11-13
So Jesus does indeed portray God the same way in John 3:36, Matthew 22:13, Revelation 14:10, Revelation 22:10 as he did in the OT 1 Chronicles 28:9
“... for the Lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought.
If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.
I agree with you trepttep. Jesus will destroy all sin and death. God overcomes evil with good. Eternal hell and eternal death mean that God does not accomplish His intention to be all in all but we know that He has all power, all knowledge and all wisdom. He knows exactly how to return all hearts that He Himself fashioned, to Himself. He is not ignorant or incompetent or unable to win every heart to Himself.All were made for Him and He loses none. Israel forsook God many times yet we know that all Israel will be saved.God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 09-10-2014 at 09:33 PM..
Many translations speak of some things as lasting forever, or being everlasting or eternal, perpetual but this cannot be taken literally.
Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 7)—until—God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ez. 16:53-55);
*Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer. 30:12)—until—the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jer. 30:17);
*The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)—until—the Lord "will restore . . . the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez. 16:53)
;*Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zeph. 2:9, Jer. 25:27)—until—the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer. 49:6);
*An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever"—until—the tenth generation (Deut. 23:3);
*Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting", that is—until—they "were shattered" (Hab. 3:6)
;*The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be "perpetual"—until—Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins.
We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Lev. 6:12-13, Heb. 8:6-13);*God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever"—until—the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1:17);*Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer. 25:27)—until—the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jer. 49:39).*"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4,42)—until—the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47);*Israel's judgment lasts "forever"—until—the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).*
I posted this on another thread and was told that there are many scriptures that state God will not save the world. I then asked for people to produce these scriptures. No scriptures were given that state God will not save the world.
Here you go. These are straight from Jesus' mouth, talking about eternal punishment and how the unsaved will experience God's wrath.
Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."
Matthew 7:22-23, "Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'"
Matthew 11:23, "And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day"
Matthew 13:40-41, "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness"
Matthew 13:49-50, "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth"
Matthew 22:13, "Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth’"
Matthew 23:15, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves" (The Doctrine of Ultimate Reconciliation - false teaching - is part of this category of those mentioned in this verse.)
Matthew 23:33, "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?"
Matthew 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"
Matthew 25:46, "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life"
Mark 9:43, "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire"
Luke 12:5, "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!"
John 3:36, "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of Godabides on him"
John 5:28-29, "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."
Revelation 2:11, "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death’"
2 Corinthians 6:2 says, "Today is the day of salvation." God's love is available to those who turn to Jesus in faith in this life and embrace Him as Savior. Those who don’t and dismiss the concept of hell will find out eternity is an awfully long time to be wrong.
"For some, hell is simply a truth realized too late." -- Os Guinness.
Here you go. These are straight from Jesus' mouth, talking about eternal punishment and how the unsaved will experience God's wrath.
Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."
Matthew 7:22-23, "Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'"
Matthew 11:23, "And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day"
Matthew 13:40-41, "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness"
Matthew 13:49-50, "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth"
Matthew 22:13, "Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth’"
Matthew 23:15, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves" (The Doctrine of Ultimate Reconciliation - false teaching - is part of this category of those mentioned in this verse.)
Matthew 23:33, "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?"
Matthew 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"
Matthew 25:46, "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life"
Mark 9:43, "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire"
Luke 12:5, "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!"
John 3:36, "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of Godabides on him"
John 5:28-29, "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."
Revelation 2:11, "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death’"
2 Corinthians 6:2 says, "Today is the day of salvation." God's love is available to those who turn to Jesus in faith in this life and embrace Him as Savior. Those who don’t and dismiss the concept of hell will find out eternity is an awfully long time to be wrong.
"For some, hell is simply a truth realized too late." -- Os Guinness.
Again which one of those scripture is suppose to state that there is no hope after death, or that Jesus Christ is NOT the saviour of ALL MEN?
Go ahead try and reconcile those scriptures with Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, espeacilly of those that believe, this COMMAND and TEACH.
We are comanded to teach that Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN and every one of you who believe in eternal torment or annihilation have come here posting scripture you believe shows what we are COMMANDED to TEACH is in error. Those who believe in eternal torment and annihilation simply refuse to believe the gospel we are COMMANDED to TEACH, holding instead the doctrine of man above what we are COMMANDED to TEACH.
And not ONE of those who believe in eternal torment or annihilation has bothered to admit that every knee shall bow in religious veneration and confess with praise and adoration even when shown that the scriptures plainly teach it.
However as it seems those who believe in eternal torment or annihilation won't acknowledge what they know to be true but instead give scripture they think undermines what we are COMMANDED to TEACH, refusing also to reconcile the scriptures they have given with the 3 scriptures I gave which state God is the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN which they should be doing instead of trying to show what we are COMMANDED to TEACH to be in error.
Therefore as they REFUSE to (in actuality they know they CANNOT) reconcile the scriptures they gave with Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, espeacially those that believe, this COMMAND and TEACH, I will show the reader how easy it is to reconcile the scriptures they have given with what we are COMMANDED to TEACH. I do this for the reader, not for those who believe in eternal torment and annihilation as they have already shown their unwillingness to acknowledge the truth concering bowing and confessing in favor of the damnable man made doctrines they hold to.
Reader keep looking to this thread as I will be adding to it as time goes by untill I have made an answer to each scripture those who believe in eternal torment and annihilation have given, and show how they are reconciled with what we are COMMANDED to TEACH, which is Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, espeacially of those that believe.
Again which one of those scripture is suppose to state that there is no hope after death, or that Jesus Christ is NOT the saviour of ALL MEN?
Go ahead try and reconcile those scriptures with Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, espeacilly of those that believe, this COMMAND and TEACH.
We are comanded to teach that Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN and every one of you who believe in eternal torment or annihilation have come here posting scripture you believe shows what we are COMMANDED to TEACH is in error. Those who believe in eternal torment and annihilation simply refuse to believe the gospel we are COMMANDED to TEACH, holding instead the doctrine of man above what we are COMMANDED to TEACH.
And not ONE of those who believe in eternal torment or annihilation has bothered to admit that every knee shall bow in religious veneration and confess with praise and adoration even when shown that the scriptures plainly teach it.
However as it seems those who believe in eternal torment or annihilation won't acknowledge what they know to be true but instead give scripture they think undermines what we are COMMANDED to TEACH, refusing also to reconcile the scriptures they have given with the 3 scriptures I gave which state God is the saviour of the WORLD or ALL MEN which they should be doing instead of trying to show what we are COMMANDED to TEACH to be in error.
Therefore as they REFUSE to (in actuality they know they CANNOT) reconcile the scriptures they gave with Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, espeacially those that believe, this COMMAND and TEACH, I will show the reader how easy it is to reconcile the scriptures they have given with what we are COMMANDED to TEACH. I do this for the reader, not for those who believe in eternal torment and annihilation as they have already shown their unwillingness to acknowledge the truth concering bowing and confessing in favor of the damnable man made doctrines they hold to.
Reader keep looking to this thread as I will be adding to it as time goes by untill I have made an answer to each scripture those who believe in eternal torment and annihilation have given, and show how they are reconciled with what we are COMMANDED to TEACH, which is Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, espeacially of those that believe.
Sorry. You first. How do you reconcile all of these (and more) scriptures that say that FEW will make it into heaven and that the rest WILL end up in eternal torment/hell?
How convenient that you keep demanding answers from others. Answers you're never satisfied with because you twist the obvious.
If God redeems EVERYONE, how do YOU account for all of these scriptures that talk about people ending up in hell? And a great number of people at that.
Go ahead. This is your thread and your topic. You've been presented scriptures that say that people will end up in hell. Answer these scriptures. Try to refute these scriptures about people going to hell before you continue your heresy.
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