Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sorry. You first. How do you reconcile all of these (and more) scriptures that say that FEW will make it into heaven and that the rest WILL end up in eternal torment/hell?
How convenient that you keep demanding answers from others. Answers you're never satisfied with because you twist the obvious.
If God redeems EVERYONE, how do YOU account for all of these scriptures that talk about people ending up in hell? And a great number of people at that.
Go ahead. This is your thread and your topic. You've been presented scriptures that say that people will end up in hell. Answer these scriptures. Try to refute these scriptures about people going to hell before you continue your heresy.
I am not going to refute them P&S I am going to show how they are reconciled with what we are COMMANDED to TEACH, which is Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, especially of those that believe.
Which is something your doctrines CANNOT do, for you CANNOT reconcile those scriptures you guys gave with what we are COMMANDED to TEACH, that Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN. All you do is tear down what we are COMMANDED to TEACH by your man made traditions.
I suppose the best place to start would be with the one word that has caused so much confusion toward Jesus Christ being the saviour of ALL MEN. And that one simple word is aion and its adjective aionios.
1. Many scholars will tell us that the word aion and its adjective aionios mean eternal, eternal means something without a beginning and without an ending.
2. These same scholars will tell us that at the time the New Testament was written, the aion and its adjective aionios, meant without beginning and without end (eternal).
Do these scholars have any proof to back up their statements? Or do they translate according to their own bias?
Let's take a look.
Scripture testifies that the aions have a beginning.
Hebrews 1:2
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds/aions.
The aions were MADE.
1 Corinthians 2:7
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world/aion unto our glory:
BEFORE the aion.
2 Timothy 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world/aionios began,
BEFORE the aionios BEGAN.
Scripture testifies that the aions have an end.
Hebrews 9:26
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world/aion hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
The aion ENDS
1 Corinthians 10:11
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world/aion are come.
The aion ENDS
Matthew 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world/aion?
The aion ENDS.
Thus we can see that scripture testifies for itself that the aions have a beginning and end.
1. Therefore as scripture states that the aion and it's adjective aionios have a beginning and an end what right do these scholars have to say that aion and its adjective are without beginning and without end? None whatsoever, these scholars are translating from their own bias. They have not taken what the scriptures themselves state about aion and its adjective aionios, but have translated the words according to their own doctrinal belief. Thus showing that they place their doctrine over what the scriptures actually tell us.
What then can be said of the second statement? Did the word aion and its adjective mean without beginning and without end (eternal) at the time the New Testament was written?
2. Well,did we not just read the scriptures that showed aion and its adjective aionios have a beginning and an end? Were these scriptures, that tell us that aion and its adjective aionios have a beginning and an end an interpolation, written hundreds of years after the New Testament was written and then placed into the New Testament?
Well if we are to believe the scholars who say that at the time of the writing of the New Testament aion and its adjective aionios meant without beginning and without end that is the only logical conclusion.
Why is it the only logical conclusion? Because either those scriptures that state aion and its adjective aionios have a beginning and an end were written at the time of the writing of the New Testament or they are an interpolation to the New Testament added at a later date.
Thus again we can see that those scholars are translating according to their own bias, placing their doctrine over what the scriptures actually show us.
One of the things I am always accused of is playing around with the meaning of words, twisting them in order to make the words fit what I believe/My doctrine, that Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN. However as we have just seen those who believe in eternal torment and annihilation are the ones who have to play around with the word aion and its adjective, twisting them to make it fit their doctrine.
Not only do those who believe in eternal torment and annihilation have to play around and twist the meaning of the Greek word aion and its adjective aionios to fit their doctrine, they have to play around and twist the English word they believe is translated correctly, eternal, in order to make it fit their doctrine.
Eternal means WITHOUT BEGINNING and without end. Yet those who believe in eternal torment and annihilation must play around and twist the meaning of eternal to mean only something that is without end. They have to do this because the doctrines of eternal torment and annihilation have a STARTING POINT. This starting point occurs AFTER the great white throne judgment.
Therefore the reader can see that those who believe in the doctrines of eternal torment and annihilation not only have to play around and twist the meaning of the Greek word used in scripture, they also have to play around and twist the meaning of the English word used to translate the Greek word in scripture in order for them to fit their man made doctrines.
So what is the true meaning of the word aion and its adjective aionios?
Aion means age, and its adjective means that which pertains to the age.
Any good literal translation will translate aion as age and it adjective aionios as age-during. I would suggest the reader to get Young's literal translation or Rotherham emphasised bible as it will help the reader to see that the word aion and its adjective aionios ALWAYS pertain to an age.
When time allows, I will show how the scriptures used by those who believe in eternal torment and annihilation to try to prove that Jesus Christ is NOT the saviour of ALL MEN, are reconciled to that which we are COMMANDED to TEACH.
Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN, espeacilly of those that believe, this command and teach.
Pneuma------ Rev 16,19) Did you read what this teaches? Every govt on earth and its armies and supporters, will be standing in opposition to Gods king. Those will not be saved--They will be destroyed just as Jesus taught. This occurs--Daniel 2:44
Pneuma------ Rev 16,19) Did you read what this teaches? Every govt on earth and its armies and supporters, will be standing in opposition to Gods king. Those will not be saved--They will be destroyed just as Jesus taught. This occurs--Daniel 2:44
If I make my enemy my friend I have destroyed my enemy.
Ephesians1:9having made known to us the secret of His **will, according to His good pleasure, that He purposed in Himself,10 in regard to the dispensation of the fulness of the times, to**bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth -- in him;11 in whom also we did obtain an inheritance, being foreordained according to the purpose of Him who the all things is working according to the counsel of His will,(Young's Literal)
It is believed that God's plan is to*reunite*all things in Christ, both things in the heavens and things on the earth
.*to bring into one=anakephalaioomai=to be reduced to a head or sum total.*In the mid voice-to gather together again in one, to reunite under one head*(as in Ephesians 1:10) source-Hebrew Greek Key Word Study BibleWhat does reunite and gather together again mean?In Ephesians 1:10 God is said ἀνακεφαλαιώσασθαι τά πάντα ἐν τῷ Χριστῷ, to*bring together again for himself (note the middle) all things and beings (hitherto disunited by sin) into one combined state of fellowship in Christ, the universal bond*(cf. Meyer or Ellicott on Ephesians, the passage cited); (Protevangelium Jacobi 13εἰς ἐμέ ἀνεκεφαλαιώθη ἡ ἱστορία Ἀδάμ, where cf. Thilo).*Source:*Strong's Greek: 346. ?????????????? (anakephalaioó) -- to sum up, gather up
**will= thelema=God's gracious disposition towards something, what God Himself does of His own good pleasure, what one wishes or has determined shall be done*of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ*of what God wishes to be done by us*commands, preceptswill, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure, denotes resolve- the will of God that must be done.
NA Greek Lexicon, Hebrew/Greek Key Word Study
Even those who have perished or who have been condemned will eventually be reunited in Jesus Christ, who has been made heir of all.
God bless
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 09-11-2014 at 08:44 PM..
2 Corinthians 6:2 says, "Today is the day of salvation."God's love is available to those who turn to Jesus in faith in this life and embrace Him as Savior.
Those who don’t and dismiss the concept of hell will find out eternity is an awfully long time to be wrong.
"For some, hell is simply a truth realized too late." -- Os Guinness.
The mistakes of yesterday and the fears of tomorrow, take away from today.
They are merely two thieves, which attempt to eliminate the love of God.
Ephesians1:9having made known to us the secret of His **will, according to His good pleasure, that He purposed in Himself,10 in regard to the dispensation of the fulness of the times, to**bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth -- in him;11 in whom also we did obtain an inheritance, being foreordained according to the purpose of Him who the all things is working according to the counsel of His will,(Young's Literal)
It is believed that God's plan is to*reunite*all things in Christ, both things in the heavens and things on the earth
.*to bring into one=anakephalaioomai=to be reduced to a head or sum total.*In the mid voice-to gather together again in one, to reunite under one head*(as in Ephesians 1:10) source-Hebrew Greek Key Word Study BibleWhat does reunite and gather together again mean?In Ephesians 1:10 God is said ἀνακεφαλαιώσασθαι τά πάντα ἐν τῷ Χριστῷ, to*bring together again for himself (note the middle) all things and beings (hitherto disunited by sin) into one combined state of fellowship in Christ, the universal bond*(cf. Meyer or Ellicott on Ephesians, the passage cited); (Protevangelium Jacobi 13εἰς ἐμέ ἀνεκεφαλαιώθη ἡ ἱστορία Ἀδάμ, where cf. Thilo).*Source:*Strong's Greek: 346. ?????????????? (anakephalaioó) -- to sum up, gather up
**will= thelema=God's gracious disposition towards something, what God Himself does of His own good pleasure, what one wishes or has determined shall be done*of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ*of what God wishes to be done by us*commands, preceptswill, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure, denotes resolve- the will of God that must be done.
NA Greek Lexicon, Hebrew/Greek Key Word Study
Even those who have perished or who have been condemned will eventually be reunited in Jesus Christ, who has been made heir of all.
"how strait [is] the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!" Young's Literal
Many are not finding the way to life in this age or even in the age to come. In the end, when Jesus has subjected all to Himself, all will have life because God will be all in all.
1 Cor. 15
And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead -- the first-fruits of those sleeping he became,
21 for since through man [is] the death, also through man [is] a rising again of the dead,
22 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
23 and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
24 then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --
25 for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --
26 the last enemy is done away -- death;
27 for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, [it is] evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
28 and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.
Young's Literal
Many of the Jews did not find the kingdom, yet all Israel will be saved.
Romans 11:25-27
25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27 “This is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 09-12-2014 at 02:50 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
