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The person I quoted was referring to 'evolving' to the rejection of Scripture and of God's perfect nature.
I don't believe chuck was. Have you evolved in your thinking from the european medieval church age beliefs?. are you still holding onto their belief of what they were convinced was truth ?.
I don't believe chuck was. Have you evolved in your thinking from the european medieval church age beliefs?. are you still holding onto their belief of what they were convinced was truth ?.
Um, you can't 'evolve' from something if you never believed in the first place.
Um, you can't 'evolve' from something if you never believed in the first place.
I believe in God's Word. That has never changed.
So do i,but i am vehemently against everything you believe. So where does that leave us?.Yet you are the one not i claiming i have the truth, this sounds very similar to what was said to Jesus by a certain set of folk. I personally am still learning and do not know all the truth yet, yet i have this uncanny conviction of recognizing that which is not.
So do i,but i am vehemently against everything you believe. So where does that leave us?.Yet you are the one not i claiming i have the truth, this sounds very similar to what was said to Jesus by a certain set of folk. I personally am still learning and do not know all the truth yet, yet i have this uncanny conviction of recognizing that which is not.
Indeed. You have shown time and again to reject the Scripture and replace it with your own understanding. What else is there to discuss?
I've already counted about ten different opinions of the lake of fire and sheol. If this Bible of yours is the inspired word of God wouldn't it be giving us a definition of these places that is so precise that we wouldn't even be having this argument?
I've already counted about ten different opinions of the lake of fire and sheol. If this Bible of yours is the inspired word of God wouldn't it be giving us a definition of these places that is so precise that we wouldn't even be having this argument?
Okay. A more complete synopsis of the orthodox Jewish belief...
First off, just looking at the Christian Old Testament as a basis for deducing Jewish beliefs is not enough. The Old Testament is only a fraction of the total rabbinical teaching, laws and wisdom handed down through hundreds and thousands of years. It is correct to say the Old Testament isn't going to give you much. But that's not all there is for Jews.
The Orthodox Jews have always had the concept of the afterlife. They have the concept of the resurrection of the dead, when the Messiah comes and remakes the world to perfection. When most people die, they go to She'ol, which is the place of purification and penance. They are in She'ol for a maximum time of 12 months after which they are able to be resurrected to eternal life in the Messianic Kingdom to come. The VERY GOOD people, like Moses, skip Sheol completely, but that is not for most people.
The real question is what happens to the wicked or VERY EVIL people in orthodox Judaism. Some believe they stay in Sheol forever. Some believe they are utterly annihalated after Sheol. Some believe they just cease to exist at death. So, there was always the question of the dispensation of the wicked.
Jesus came and offered an entirely NEW teaching on Eternal Damnation for Israel, both in his life ministry and even more in his Revelation to John from heaven after his death. The Lake of Fire outlined in Revelation clarifies the difference between Sheol and Eternal Punishment. Indeed, it even clarifies the fact that death and the grave are themselves destroyed in the Lake of FIre inasmuch as they are realities of the universe NOW. Death will no longer exist.
So, the word "Hell" in the KJV and NKJV New Testament is NOT the same thing as the Lake of FIre described in Revelation. It is a mistranslation of the Jewish concept of the temporary state of Sheol, or the grave. Despite 1600 years of Catholic teaching to the contrary, Hell and the concept of purgatory too, borrowed from anitiquity and She'ol, is bogus. The NT teaches a very different afterlife scenario. It clarifies it and puts it into a much more definite chronology of time. We now know there are TWO resurrections - one for the good and one for the wicked.
The only real question open for debate in Revelation is whether or not all the wicked dead suffer eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire, or just annihalation. The only thing we know for sure is that the book explicitly lays out eternal torment for the antichrist, the false prophet and Satan. There is room for argument for the mortals - I think the passage leans toward eternal destruction. Which in my mind is a more just punishment for humans - but it's not about feelings.
Actually you believe in the Bible . . . NOT God's word. Jesus the Christ is God's Word. He abides with us but you reject Him and the New Covenant He ushered in. You trust the Old Covenant "written in ink" and stone over the New that God has "written in our hearts" and the Comforter guides us to in agape "love of God and each other."
The abode of the dead (not the living) is the grave. How many levels do you see in the realm of the dead?
One final time (4th time). What are the differences between the different levels in this place you call the "grave"?
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