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Let me explain. Galatians 1:15-16, for example, declares, in effect, that Paul was gifted to preach at birth. But that gift, obviously, was not exercised until many years later. To be sure, he no doubt preached and taught before he believed, but that preaching or teaching received an entirely new dimension when he was saved. He had the gift (talent) all along; it became "spiritual" when he became spiritual.
It was just a natural talent that didn't become a 'spiritual gifting' until he became spiritual.
I believe you missed the point, "His "natural" giftedness (which, of course, was sovereignly given also)
it became enhanced in spiritual things, that is what it was saying, because he was preaching before he believed, read it again
This might be a good example. Paul knew God, knew His word and believed. He had not yet come to understand who Jesus was. In most things he taught what was true to the best of his knowledge, but after his little visit with Jesus on the road to Damascus and acceptance, his talents/gifts were not just enhanced or just used but augmented with God spirit directing him.He was given not just understanding but direction as to what was needed by the ekklesia. That gift no man can have without God's giving it.
GINOLJC to all
As we was discussing this topic of “Gifts”, and “Calling”, last night, the Lord revealed to me something very interesting concerning this topic of discussion. I’ll share. natural “gifts”, of the “Gift”, himself is inbreathed, or inherit in us before our natural birth. reference, (Jeremiah 1:5), now this is a Spiritual gift in a natural setting. for we the “soul” have a spirit, which is of God in us. and his inbreathed spirit, make us “Living” souls, or Adams, or an another of God, in natural flesh with blood. for the Hebrew word Adam means “another”, as in like or in the image of God. definition, from Strong’s dictionary, H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm')
1. ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.)
KJV: X another, hypocrite, common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
see how the KJV can translate the word, “another”, just as in the Greek G243 ἄλλος allos (al'-los).
here is my point, most material I had read before on Gifts vs talents, the reasoning was this. talents was inherited naturally, biologically from birth. well that lie was shot down yesterday. but it was one person reply that made me rethink on promises in relation to gifts. which where I was going in the first place but what they said made me go and do a little more research. it was a connection to a promise that I never made before. and now that connection have open up many doors. case in point. the article said that a spiritual gift enhances the natural talent, or gift. ok, lets see it from the bible. on the day of Pentecost the apostle Peter spoke in tongue, which is a Spiritual Gifts, (see the listing in 1 Corinthians chapter 12, verses 8-10, but these are not the only “gifts”, because the apostle Paul list some more in the same chapter in verse 28. but to the point of tongues spoken at Pentecost. now, there are three tongues, 1. unknown, 2. other, or another tongue, and 3. New tongue. question, is this three tongue?. NO, it’s only ONE tongue, used in three application. lets see an example to explain this. just for instance, if a child was naturally born in China, and at birth was adopted by an English speaking couple, and brought to a country, say the United States, where the dominant language is English, and when the child was growing up in its surrounding, and hearing only English, what do you think the child will speak?. that’s right English, even though born Chinese. so that naturally inherit lie is dead. now back to the tongue. it is one tongue?, which is the Spirit?, yes, for is was the Spirit that enhanced the speaking ability in another, or other tongue. yes it was the Spirit, not Peter, Peter was the inbreathed vessel used by God to speak through. scripture, Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance”. it was the Spirit that GAVE, (gift) them the utterance. now question, was it not the Spirit that diversified the tongue in the first place,?. yes, remember the tower of Babel. scripture, Genesis 11:2 "And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. 3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter 4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded 6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech”. so it was one tongue, only the LORD confound, or diversified their language. now the question, "was their language NATURAL?", yes, but is the LORD Spiritual, or Natural?, answer, Spiritual. so the another, or other tongue, or Language is Spiritual in nature. but when use by the Lord it is supernatural, or as the article states enhanced for Spiritual purpose.
now this information open some other doors. what we think as natural is really Spiritually disguise. case in point. Evolution, it’s not naturally, but Spiritually. the term “natural selection” used in evolution, is Spiritual selection misunderstood. example, Genesis 1:11 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so”. I used this scripture before to make a point about God hand in Evolution
. question, WHO brought forth, the Earth or God?. answer, the Earth as the scripture states, but it was the guiding hand of God “NATUALLY”, selecting, or guiding the process that's the disguise, the UNSEEN. scripture, Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse". see natural selection is seen, by the UNSEEN,...... GOD, who is a Spirit. this again alone is a study course by itself. just as in our technology. but here is the understanding of these gifts. yes, they are inbreathed by the Spirit, but the devil can influence, by deception, or deceit, these gifts or as we have been saying talents, as we develop in diffrent stages of life to use these God given “gifts” in an ungodly way. this is why we have wars, and rumours of wars.
but back to the topic, a gift is given before one knows about it, case in point, 2 Timothy 1:6 "Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands”. the gifts was in him before the putting of hands on him. listen to the preceding verses, 2 Timothy 1:5 "When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also”. so “Gifts”, are definitive within us, notice DWELLING, in inherit, but already given for the Lord to use for his purpose.
see, before the foundation of the worlds was even laid, God saw all of this. scripture, 2 Esdras 6:6 “Then did I consider these things, and they all were made through me alone, and through none other: by me also they shall be ended, and by none other”. everything, Natural, and unnatural. yes, even in evolution. “Natural Selection”, which is Spiritual Selection, which is of God. the ERROR of Darwinism, God saw the monkey coming too. he knew all of this, even before it happen.
now lets look at Romans 9:9 "For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son. 10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth). so how could one repent if one have neither did anything good or evil. so the “gifts”, and “calling” of God is without repentances.
But this topic have open so many a doors. just a study on “natural selection”, is a course in itself. but think of the enhancement this will give to life coaches, as they are called in some churches, for we even had a topic,” Psychologists say babies know right from wrong even at six months ... Yale (doctrine, believe)”. which I must look at. if this is true, then that’s another area of study for the christian to look at in depth. this one scripture Romans 11:29 have open up other AVENUES of understanding of God. and this is just the beginning.
I suggest one re-read this post for the meat in it.
2 jghorton, thanks very much. I knew of the Promise that it is God's perfect, unchanging purpose, see Romans 9:4-11. but can you explain a little more concerning Nineveh and a "Gift", from God without repentance. because their SALVATION was assured by their repentance. but how do the gift come into play with the people of Nineveh, because the Holy Spirit was not given then. maybe I just missed it.
I was only using Nineveh/Jonah to illustrate God's unchanging purpose and plan. However, although the indwelling Holy Spirit wasn't yet given to all believers, God's Holy Spirit was very much evident in the OT and was always the 'force' in "God's work" in/through His people. The people of Nineveh, for example, did not turn to God because Jonah so passionately pleaded with them, but, because God's Spirit compelled them ... which He had already planned to do before He recruited Jonah.
I was only using Nineveh/Jonah to illustrate God's unchanging purpose and plan. However, although the indwelling Holy Spirit wasn't yet given to all believers, God's Holy Spirit was very much evident in the OT and was always the 'force' in "God's work" in/through His people. The people of Nineveh, for example, did not turn to God because Jonah so passionately pleaded with them, but, because God's Spirit compelled them ... which He had already planned to do before He recruited Jonah.
Good point, thanks.
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