All have sinned, but...

[Captain Mario]

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

The biggest "pig" in the bible is LOT - Yet Peter declares him "righteous"!!

There is none righteous - no not even ONE!

Yes...this is a problem, isn't it. We can get into that too at some point.

Vizio...Genesis 3 means something different to me entirely.

Even if we accept Genesis 3 as pointing to Jesus, my point still stands that it didn't have to be faith in the fact that Jesus was killed as a substitutionary atonement that saves us. The kind of faith that saves already existed long before that...that's my point.

Jesus never spoke of that kind of faith actually (faith in his death and resurrection as an atonement that saves us)...only Paul. Jesus talked about the faith to move mountains, and the faith in God that saves us...but not the faith that him being killed is what would redeem us.


BTW I agree with Thomas Jefferson among many many many others that all the Pauline epistles should be taken out and were put there by Satan to confuse and detract from the message of Christ. There are thousands of problems with Paul's writings. There is a WEALTH of information on this, for those who have the courage to actually look at it. The "none righteous not even one" contradicts a lot of the Bible, and Psalms is full of references to "The righteous." You simply can't ignore it.

All have sinned...but the point is that you can have redemption, and it does require work, and is not automatic upon saying you believe. This is why Jesus said PICK UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW ME!

[Captain Mario]

Originally Posted by DRob4JC

Are you speaking of John's father that did not believe God's messenger about what the baby should be named? And had his speech removed from him until John was born?

Good point.

This is where the dilemma is. It has to do with the difference between righteous, and perfect.

You can be righteous, and blameless before God (which means you are redeemed since there is no blame on you), and still not be perfect.

Even Jesus admitted he wasn't perfect when he said "why do you call me good? There is none good other than God."

All incarnated beings are imperfect. But that does not mean that we are unredeemed or unrighteous. The idea that if you sin in any one little thing, you are automatically "guilty of all" is also wrong. But I am of the opinion that the Bible itself is rife with problems.

But that's okay, given that we don't need the Bible to be perfect in order to have salvation. There are too many versions of it (with differing books included) for that to even be true. And it wasn't even available for people to read (due to language barriers and illiteracy) for a good part of these 2,000 years anyway. The Bible, when it's correct, accurately describes what is going on in this world, but this information is also directly accessible from God to any man who earnestly wants to know the truth.