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Old 09-22-2014, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Oregon
802 posts, read 449,341 times
Reputation: 46

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Until the late 1800's the Holy Bible was considered to be divinely inspired and free of all error. But since then thinking has changed. For example, Vatican II's Dei Verbum (1964) seems to allow for error by suggesting that not everything in scripture is inspired.

First, let me present the 1893 teaching which is basically the same as that of all fundamentalist Christians.

" For all the books which the Church receives as sacred and canonical, are written wholly and entirely, with all their parts, at the dictation of the Holy Ghost; and so far is it from being possible that any error can co-exist with inspiration, that inspiration not only is essentially incompatible with error, but excludes and rejects it as absolutely and necessarily as it is impossible that God Himself, the supreme Truth, can utter that which is not true. ..... Hence, because the Holy Ghost employed men as His instruments, we cannot therefore say that it was these inspired instruments who, perchance, have fallen into error, and not the primary author. For, by supernatural power, He so moved and impelled them to write-He was so present to them-that the things which He ordered, and those only, they, first, rightly understood, then willed faithfully to write down, and finally expressed in apt words and with infallible truth. Otherwise, it could not be said that He was the Author of the entire Scripture. (Providentissimus Leo XIII)"

But this traditional teaching is now questioned.

(To be continued)

Last edited by Aristotle's Child; 09-22-2014 at 02:25 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 09-23-2014, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Oregon
802 posts, read 449,341 times
Reputation: 46
However, many biblical scholars realized that the errors and contradictions in the Bible made it impossible to claim that it was all inspired.

In 1964 at Vatican II, Catholic teaching began to reflect the growing disbelief of the claim that all scripture was inspired (or "God breathed").

" In composing the sacred books, God chose men and while employed by Him they made use of their powers and abilities, so that with Him acting in them and through them, they, as true authors, consigned to writing everything and only those things which He wanted."

Hence, the reason for the errors is that not everything in the Bible is inspired.

This, of course, creates a problem since one has to decide what is and what is not inspired scripture.

Last edited by Aristotle's Child; 09-23-2014 at 06:44 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 09-23-2014, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Oregon
802 posts, read 449,341 times
Reputation: 46
"The term "inerrancy" is not used by the Roman Catholics church as often as it is used among conservative Protestants. However, the concept of inerrancy pays a major role in many of their beliefs about the Bible."

SEE Inerrancy: Roman Catholic views on the Bible's infallability and inerrancy

As is cited in the article, there are three different views of biblical inerrancy:

1. Absolute inerrancy

2. Limited inerrancy

3. No inerrancy - "Still other Catholic theologians and scholars have deviated entirely from the church's official teaching. They agree with liberal Protestants in rejecting the inerrancy of the Bible. They interpret it as containing much legend, myth, historical and scientific inaccuracies, religious propaganda, etc."

Last edited by Aristotle's Child; 09-23-2014 at 06:42 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:36 AM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,238,914 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galileo2 View Post
"The term "inerrancy" is not used by the Roman Catholics church as often as it is used among conservative Protestants. However, the concept of inerrancy pays a major role in many of their beliefs about the Bible."

SEE Inerrancy: Roman Catholic views on the Bible's infallability and inerrancy

As is cited in the article, there are three different views of biblical inerrancy:

1. Absolute inerrancy

2. Limited inerrancy

3. No inerrancy - "Still other Catholic theologians and scholars have deviated entirely from the church's official teaching. They agree with liberal Protestants in rejecting the inerrancy of the Bible. They interpret it as containing much legend, myth, historical and scientific inaccuracies, religious propaganda, etc."
Well The High Priests words to Jesus were not inspired, but recording them in the Bible was inspired by God.
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Old 09-23-2014, 08:08 AM
 
Location: california
7,287 posts, read 6,859,172 times
Reputation: 9198
From what I am instructed ,
Scriptures are for those with out the Holy Spirit tutelage Jesus provides.
Scriptures can provide some basic knowledge, but are a serious distraction from seeking the relationship God intends.
Jesus taught and demonstrated Obedience and as such expects obedience via the Holy Spirit he provides to teach in his place.
1 John 2;20,
If you look up Comforter, and Holy Spirit, you can find verses on Jesus reference to Him .The Holy Spirit is the promise of the Father .
Secondly Jesus strictly told the disciples not to be called rabbi(teacher ) ,master or father. these Paul defies and promotes .
A man serious about loving God, will want to obey "HIM".
The gospel is a proclamation, those seeking God may receive, not an intellectual argument not a religion Paul turned it into.
God knows those that love Him , and those, He provides revelation of Jesus to.
That is why some simply looking for a fire extinguisher ,miss the message altogether. they are unwilling to yield their govern to God.
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Old 09-23-2014, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Oregon
802 posts, read 449,341 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Well The High Priests words to Jesus were not inspired, but recording them in the Bible was inspired by God.
RESPONSE:

Michael 26:62-64

62The high priest stood up and said, ‘Have you no answer? What is it that they testify against you?’ 63But Jesus was silent. Then the high priest said to him, ‘I put you under oath before the living God, tell us if you are the Messiah,* the Son of God.’ 64Jesus said to him, ‘You have said so. But I tell you,
From now on you will see the Son of Man
seated at the right hand of Power
and coming on the clouds of heaven

"Inspired" but in error. The high priest never saw the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven. Jesus was mistaken to claim that he would return within his generation.
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Old 09-23-2014, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Oregon
802 posts, read 449,341 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
From what I am instructed ,
Scriptures are for those with out the Holy Spirit tutelage Jesus provides.
Scriptures can provide some basic knowledge, but are a serious distraction from seeking the relationship God intends.
Jesus taught and demonstrated Obedience and as such expects obedience via the Holy Spirit he provides to teach in his place.
1 John 2;20,
If you look up Comforter, and Holy Spirit, you can find verses on Jesus reference to Him .The Holy Spirit is the promise of the Father .
Secondly Jesus strictly told the disciples not to be called rabbi(teacher ) ,master or father. these Paul defies and promotes .
A man serious about loving God, will want to obey "HIM".
The gospel is a proclamation, those seeking God may receive, not an intellectual argument not a religion Paul turned it into.
God knows those that love Him , and those, He provides revelation of Jesus to.
That is why some simply looking for a fire extinguisher ,miss the message altogether. they are unwilling to yield their govern to God.
QUESTION:

How do you know what Jesus taught if the New Testament in not entirely inspired? Maybe you are reading an uninspired passage.
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Old 09-23-2014, 08:31 AM
 
Location: central Florida
1,146 posts, read 639,696 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galileo2 View Post
Until the late 1800's the Holy Bible was considered to be divinely inspired and free of all error. But since then thinking has changed. For example, Vatican II's Dei Verbum (1964) seems to allow for error by suggesting that not everything in scripture is inspired.

First, let me present the 1893 teaching which is basically the same as that of all fundamentalist Christians.

" For all the books which the Church receives as sacred and canonical, are written wholly and entirely, with all their parts, at the dictation of the Holy Ghost; and so far is it from being possible that any error can co-exist with inspiration, that inspiration not only is essentially incompatible with error, but excludes and rejects it as absolutely and necessarily as it is impossible that God Himself, the supreme Truth, can utter that which is not true. ..... Hence, because the Holy Ghost employed men as His instruments, we cannot therefore say that it was these inspired instruments who, perchance, have fallen into error, and not the primary author. For, by supernatural power, He so moved and impelled them to write-He was so present to them-that the things which He ordered, and those only, they, first, rightly understood, then willed faithfully to write down, and finally expressed in apt words and with infallible truth. Otherwise, it could not be said that He was the Author of the entire Scripture. (Providentissimus Leo XIII)"

But this traditional teaching is now questioned.

(To be continued)
To begin with, most scoffers of the Bible don't give a rat's tail whether scholars agree or disagree on any of its content. They pick and choose whatever fits their notions of God or godlessness and are therefore comfortable with their own subjective opinions, thus justifying their own sins and wickedness.

Perfect examples here are quotations of Roman Catholic interpretations. The church claims the pope is infallible too, though I submit to the reader that he'd soon discover he wasn't if he was married.

No discussion is herein presented for the confusion - merely that it exists. Does that mean there's something wrong with the Bible or that those who have risen to the laudable heights of scholarship (and who don't have to really WORK for a living), are presenting their own arguments so as to be published with a new 'spin'?

Publish or perish is the name of the game in academia, and that applies to holy orders as well as the secular world. The result is obscenely expensive text books for college students and religious smoke and mirrors from the Vatican. In the end the purpose of the scoffer is to use all this rubbish to keep intellectual sewers open and the sludge of doubt moving through.

Shall we then begin a detailed point by point discussion of every nuance and line of the Bible, examining every one for mistaken interpretation, or shall we begin with basic concepts? Let's take baby steps and start with point #1.

#1 "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"
- Romans 3:23

This is but one of the scripture passages used to establish the doctrine of the total depravity of man. Being thus corrupted, is it then possible for man, even a man with so many degrees we can call him Dr. Fahrenheit, to correctly interpret the Word of Truth? I suggest that the INTERPRETATIONS of such men, who have debauched themselves for the sake of glory and money, should be called into question - NOT the Word of God.

All things considered, the argument leaves the rants of fools, scoffers and philosophers, who like to occupy themselves with nothing more than doodling with words, neatly hidden in the smoke screens they've constructed for defense. They commit to nothing except their own foolishness - and sad to say they will die in it.

Good riddance I say. Let them burn in the fires of hell, for these 'scholars' seek only to make men twice as fit for hell as they are themselves. Jesus said those words by the way. They are good words.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Old 09-23-2014, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Oregon
802 posts, read 449,341 times
Reputation: 46
Is this biblical passage telling everyone to kill unbelievers really divinely inspired?

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." -- Dt.13:6-10

Isn't that what we find objectionable about the beliefs of Islamic fundamentalists? Yet isn't that the Bible's teaching too?

Or do we believe that God would never command such a thing so this passage can't be inspired and inerrant? []

Last edited by Aristotle's Child; 09-23-2014 at 08:40 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 09-23-2014, 11:04 AM
 
1,606 posts, read 1,243,832 times
Reputation: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galileo2 View Post
Is this biblical passage telling everyone to kill unbelievers really divinely inspired?

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." -- Dt.13:6-10

Isn't that what we find objectionable about the beliefs of Islamic fundamentalists? Yet isn't that the Bible's teaching too?

Or do we believe that God would never command such a thing so this passage can't be inspired and inerrant? []
There is nothing immoral about the commands of God in the Mosaic Law. God is just.
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