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-The mayor put forward the Equal Rights Ordinance which provides protection against discrimination for gay, lesbian and transgender people in areas such as employment, accommodation etc.
-Some church groups decided to get a petition together to stop it because they don't like gay and lesbian people having the same rights as they do and want to discriminate against them freely.
-The city tosses the petition because of invalid signatures because churches were used to gather petition signatures and 5 pastors were using their pulpits for political purposes despite their tax-exempt status.
-The church groups sue the city for tossing the petition.
-The AG subpoenas the sermons/communications of the 5 pastors which would show they used their churches/pulpits for political purposes which make the sermons etc fair game, and those signatures invalid.
-Fundamentalists scream 'We're being discriminated against and persecuted by the evil gay agenda! The end is nigh!"
Is that about right?
Doesn't it have to do with the "bathroom" ordinance?
This is just as many have predicted. First they want tolerance, then full acceptance, and then they will turn on their enemies and demand that they remain quiet or die. But this case should be interesting. For now, I'm sure these pastors will thumb their noses at the city govt. and the city will lose. But there are other actions the city could take. I predict the first serious action will be to end the tax benefits they have. Property tax and ending exemptions on contributions. Christians will probably end up in house churches, because they will not be able to afford a large separate structure. Eventually, they might have to meet in secret. It should be fun to watch. You can't fight God and win. The result will be a broken and defeated nation, that has way more problems than it does even today.
And let's be honest, the gay community doesn't see the Islam community as much of a threat as Christians since they do not have the power that Christians do in this country.
Interesting statement.
My first thought was that it's Christ's power - not Christians' power.
Then I thought - what power do we have other than we appear to be more in number?
After initially attempting to defend their actions, they are now claiming that the "wording" was a little overbroad.
What's concerning is that the subpoena was drafted by an outside counsel working pro-bono for the mayor.
The mayor is predictably playing the victim card: ""Let me just say that one word in a very long legal document which I know nothing about and would never have read and I'm vilified coast to coast." Gee, attack people's first amendment rights and they push back. What a surprise.
YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PRODUCE THE FOLLOWING RECORDS:
l. All documents or communications to, from, CCing, BCCing, or forwarded to you, or otherwise in your possession, relating or referring to any of the following in connection in any way with HERO, the Petition:
a. Plaintiffs,
b. Annise Parker or the Mayor's office,
c. Anna Russell or the City Secretary's office,
d. David Feldman or the City Attorney's office,
e. HERO or any drafts of HERO,
f. the Petition, or any drafts of the Petition, including any discussions relating to the language included at the top of the Petition,
g. the legal requirements for petitions under Texas, Houston municipal, or any other law,
h. Petition signers,
i. Petition Circulators,
j. affidavits filled out by Petition Circulators, including the notarization of the affidavits,
k. the payment of Petition Circulators,
l. funding of the Petition or petition drives,
m. the topics of equal rights, civil rights, homosexuality, or gender identity,
n. language relating to restroom access,
o. language related to restroom access being or having been removed from a version of HERO, including any communications related to the removal of that language,
p. any discussion about whether or how HERO does or does not impact restroom access.
2. All communications to or from Plaintiffs.
3. All communications with the City regarding HERO or the Petition.
4. All communications with members of your congregation regarding HERO or the Petition.
5. All communications with Joe La Rue or anyone else at the "Alliance Defending Freedom" regarding HERO or the Petition.
6. All drafts of the Petition.
7. All lists of Petition Circulators.
8. All communications to or from Petition Circulators.
9. Any documents relating to the payment of Petition Circulators, including but not limited to:
a. budgets related to the payment of Petition Circulators,
b. check stubs or check registers reflecting payments to Petition Circulators,
c. copies of checks made out to Petition Circulators,
d. tax forms relating to the payment of Petition circulators,
e. documents explaining calculation of payment to Petition Circulators,
f. documents referencing incentives given to Petition Circulators for obtaining certain numbers of signatures or completing a certain number of pages.
10. Any documents relating to funding and funding sources of the Petition and Petition-related activities.
11. All training materials prepared for Petition Circulators or anyone else involved in the collection of any signatures for the Petition.
12. All speeches, presentations, or sermons related to HERO, the Petition, Mayor Annise Parker, homosexuality, or gender identity prepared by, delivered by, revised by, or approved by you or in your possession.
13. All documents, studies, information, communications, or other data relied on in connection with the Petition to check, confirm, or ensure the truthfulness and accuracy of the statements made in the Petition, including but not limited to the statements in the Petition (or in any training materials prepared for Petition Circulators or anyone else involved in the collection of any signatures for the Petition) that "Biological males ARE IN FACT allowed to enter women's restrooms in Houston under Mayor Annise Parker's "Equal Rights Ordinance", thereby threatening the physical and emotional safety of our women and children!" and that "Her ERO creates UNequal Rights for a tiny group of people by taking away rights of safety and privacy for the vast majority of our women and children!") (emphasis in original).
14. All documents, studies, information, communications, or other data that you believe support or demonstrate the truthfulness and accuracy of the statements made in the Petition, including but not limited to the statements in the Petition (or in any training materials prepared for Petition Circulators or anyone else involved in the collection of any signatures for the Petition) that "Biological males ARE IN FACT allowed to enter women's restrooms in Houston under Mayor Annise Parker's "Equal Rights Ordinance", thereby threatening the physical and emotional safety of our women and children!" and that "Her ERO creates UNequal Rights for a tiny group of people by taking away rights of safety and privacy for the vast majority of our women and children!") (emphasis in original).
15. All communications with anyone at or associated with the Houston Area Pastor Council referring or relating to HERO, restroom access in connection with HERO, the Petition, or this litigation.
16. All documents or communications reflecting or relating to the validity of signatures on the Petition or the validity of any Petition Pages, including but not limited to correspondence, notes, spreadsheets, or other documents regarding:
a. the validity of signatures,
b. the registered-voter status of any signatories,
c. the number of valid signatures,
d. the validity of Petition pages,
e. the validity of Circulator Oaths,
City council passes law back in June - most widely known by allowing men (who believe they are women) to use women's bathrooms.
Petition started to put the law on the ballot for vote. 17,000 signatures required. 50,000 turned in. City secretary validated the signatures. City council rejected the certification.
Lawsuit started to validate signatures. Subpoena issued by mayor's team (post #55) to get information, including sermon material, from churches/pastors who are not party to the lawsuit.
And now the mayor's team is supposedly backtracking because of public pressure.
The initial post made it sound like every pastor in Houston was being subpoenaed. In actuality there were five. And those five were targeted for allegedly using their pulpits to propose undermining the law.
While the action of the mayor is indefensible, so is the action of those pastors if what is alleged is true. The churches should then be stripped of the greatest evil existing in American Christianity -- tax exemption. The whole corrupt tax exemption scheme is akin to the indulgences sold by the Catholic Church during medieval times. Someone becomes a tither and is wrapped in a cloak of righteousness.
I remember years ago in a relatively small church (175-200) when the lottery was proposed as entering our state. Our pastor stood before us at a business meeting and said we should all oppose introduction of the lottery. One member asked, "Does that mean if it is introduced and one of our members wins a million dollars, that as a church we will refuse to accept a tithe of it?"
Without responding our pastor said it was getting late and we needed to proceed with our prayer meeting.
Pastors pushing political agendas in the name of chits should EXPECT to see themselves as political targets by their opponents. The entire evangelical church has been hijacked by a political party who is telling the church it is right to hate and oppress in the name of God. Of course, those politicians couch it in different language and preachers justify it as righteous indignation. But I was alive and old enough to understand the very same language was used to treat black people like dirt. And pastors found plenty of scripture to defend themselves.
Fifty years later and the same ungodly, viper like attitudes exist in the name of Jesus, the One person who condemned only the super religious of His day, and forever stood for the oppressed, the least, the condemned against those self same religious folks.
The initial post made it sound like every pastor in Houston was being subpoenaed. In actuality there were five. And those five were targeted for allegedly using their pulpits to propose undermining the law.
While the action of the mayor is indefensible, so is the action of those pastors if what is alleged is true. The churches should then be stripped of the greatest evil existing in American Christianity -- tax exemption. The whole corrupt tax exemption scheme is akin to the indulgences sold by the Catholic Church during medieval times. Someone becomes a tither and is wrapped in a cloak of righteousness.
I remember years ago in a relatively small church (175-200) when the lottery was proposed as entering our state. Our pastor stood before us at a business meeting and said we should all oppose introduction of the lottery. One member asked, "Does that mean if it is introduced and one of our members wins a million dollars, that as a church we will refuse to accept a tithe of it?"
Without responding our pastor said it was getting late and we needed to proceed with our prayer meeting.
Pastors pushing political agendas in the name of chits should EXPECT to see themselves as political targets by their opponents. The entire evangelical church has been hijacked by a political party who is telling the church it is right to hate and oppress in the name of God. Of course, those politicians couch it in different language and preachers justify it as righteous indignation. But I was alive and old enough to understand the very same language was used to treat black people like dirt. And pastors found plenty of scripture to defend themselves.
Fifty years later and the same ungodly, viper like attitudes exist in the name of Jesus, the One person who condemned only the super religious of His day, and forever stood for the oppressed, the least, the condemned against those self same religious folks.
Great post! I fully support any church's right to preach against gay people all they want. They deserve that freedom. But once they cross over into politics, it's a different game. In California, I remember finding a "voter guide" in a nearby church parking lot that specifically told church members to vote for all the Republican candidates. That church should have lost its tax-exempt status.
-The mayor put forward the Equal Rights Ordinance which provides protection against discrimination for gay, lesbian and transgender people in areas such as employment, accommodation etc.
-Some church groups decided to get a petition together to stop it because they don't like gay and lesbian people having the same rights as they do and want to discriminate against them freely.
-The city tosses the petition because of invalid signatures because churches were used to gather petition signatures and 5 pastors were using their pulpits for political purposes despite their tax-exempt status.
-The church groups sue the city for tossing the petition.
-The AG subpoenas the sermons/communications of the 5 pastors which would show they used their churches/pulpits for political purposes which make the sermons etc fair game, and those signatures invalid.
-Fundamentalists scream 'We're being discriminated against and persecuted by the evil gay agenda! The end is nigh!"
Is that about right?
Yeah, that sums it up. But the fundies are screaming, "See what happens when you let the gays marry? They're still not happy and they're oppressing us poor, innocent Christians!"
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