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Wow, all the anti-Christ talking points all in one reply. Well, you lose points for not calling anyone a bigot, so there's that. It amazes me how much false accusations litter your posts. You believe sin is not sin and judge those who stand firm in God's Word. The only hatred is your hatred of God and embracing of the world.
what does Jesus say about the truth of God? I bet He said it would cause warm and fuzzy loving feelings in everyone, right?
“Brothers will turn against their own brothers and hand them over to be killed. Fathers will hand over their own children to be killed. Children will fight against their own parents and will have them killed. Everyone will hate you because you follow me. But the one who remains faithful to the end will be saved." (Matt. 10:22-23)
Wait, what? How could the truth of God cause such horrible things? Who can be against love? Obviously Matthew was mistaken in this quote. According to you, in order to win people to Christ, we must make them feel good about their sin, tell them they are A-OK in God's eyes.
Well guess what, you are the one who hates Christians for following Christ. You're the one Jesus was talking about when He said 'everyone will hate you because you follow me.'
There is no hate, no condemnation here, simply a love for all and a desire to see all men saved. The difference between me and you is that I am not willing to reject God's morality to make the world feel better about their sin. That's not love, that's hypocrisy. You claim love, and yet you have no problem giving the green light and guided tours down the broad road, making claims it is the true path when all you are doing is causing people to doubt God.
It's quite sad the lengths you will go to defend sin, compared to the length you will go to defend God.
So why cannot your witness that engenders doubt and despair and fear among homosexuals win them to Christ? Perhaps because you are interested more in usurping God's function of judgment.
How many people have you won to Christ by condemning them. Dozens? Even one?
Love and forgiveness and acceptance IN SPITE of sin wins people to Jesus. What is shameful is that you believe God needs defending. Whatever did He do before you arrived? Or is your god weak?
Having recently watched a federal judge overthrow the will of the people in my state who voted to ban same-sex marriage I feel we are in perilous times.
A single act of homosexuality is considered an abomination in God's Word the Bible. Therefore marriage between two homosexuals is off the moral scale as far as abominations go. I think we all need to wake up before our nation is destroyed for this and all the rest of our horrible sins.
There is NO double standard with God.
Here is a scripture from the both King James Version and the Easy-to-Read Version of the Bible:
Leviticus 20:13
KJV:
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
ERV:
“If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.
The US Government is promoting sin and eventually we are all going to have to pay a heavy price.
Whatever happened to separation of church and State?
So why cannot your witness that engenders doubt and despair and fear among homosexuals win them to Christ? Perhaps because you are interested more in usurping God's function of judgment.
How many people have you won to Christ by condemning them. Dozens? Even one?
Love and forgiveness and acceptance IN SPITE of sin wins people to Jesus. What is shameful is that you believe God needs defending. Whatever did He do before you arrived? Or is your god weak?
Repent while you are able.
Where did I say I condemn anyone? I didn't. That's the problem is that you mischaracterize and misquote all that you disagree with. I have brought people to Christ because I show them the love of Christ and that love opens the door to sharing the gospel which leads to salvation. What is the gospel message? That God loved us so much that He sent His only son Jesus to die for our sins.
None of this requires me to deny that sin is sin and that sin separates us from God and we need to repent and turn from it, run from it actually, according to God. But how do we know what is sin? Well, the Holy Spirit works within us through the Word of God as a testimony to God's will.
Before someone is born again, cleaning the outside of the cup is pointless, as the inside is dirty. However, once a person becomes a new creature in Christ, they are called to turn from sin and the world and repent and ask God's forgiveness when they stumble. One of the ways this is accomplished is through the judgement of others within the body.
Jesus teaches us clearly to judge out of love and gentleness so that we would draw a weak one back to God. This is love and Jesus exhorts everyone to do this so that the angels in heaven would rejoice! Jesus said that we are the light of the world. He could have said He is the light of the world but he wants us to be the light, just as he wants us to be His vessels, used to bring others into salvation and to strengthen those already children of God.
I don't condemn, but I do judge out of love and gentleness those who are saved, as Christ teaches. I do not judge those who are outside the body, but I do stand firm in being one with God who clearly calls their sinful actions as wickedness.
Where did I say I condemn anyone? I didn't. That's the problem is that you mischaracterize and misquote all that you disagree with. I have brought people to Christ because I show them the love of Christ and that love opens the door to sharing the gospel which leads to salvation. What is the gospel message? That God loved us so much that He sent His only son Jesus to die for our sins.
None of this requires me to deny that sin is sin and that sin separates us from God and we need to repent and turn from it, run from it actually, according to God. But how do we know what is sin? Well, the Holy Spirit works within us through the Word of God as a testimony to God's will.
Before someone is born again, cleaning the outside of the cup is pointless, as the inside is dirty. However, once a person becomes a new creature in Christ, they are called to turn from sin and the world and repent and ask God's forgiveness when they stumble. One of the ways this is accomplished is through the judgement of others within the body.
Jesus teaches us clearly to judge out of love and gentleness so that we would draw a weak one back to God. This is love and Jesus exhorts everyone to do this so that the angels in heaven would rejoice! Jesus said that we are the light of the world. He could have said He is the light of the world but he wants us to be the light, just as he wants us to be His vessels, used to bring others into salvation and to strengthen those already children of God.
I don't condemn, but I do judge out of love and gentleness those who are saved, as Christ teaches. I do not judge those who are outside the body, but I do stand firm in being one with God who clearly calls their sinful actions as wickedness.
So you actively recruit "sinful" homosexuals to come to your church? Would a homosexual couple feel as welcome in your church as any divorced couple? You fellowship with those "sinners?"
Would a homosexual have been comfortable around Jesus? Or do you think He confined His fellowship to less "evil" people? Have you any passages in the Bible showing how harshly JESUS spoke to sinners. I am only aware of His condemnation of the most religious, the most erudite bible readers of His day. You rely on Paul, and any time you wish to start a thread, I can post many instances where Paul, who never walked and talked with Jesus, simply misses the boat or contradicts the Son of God. Whenever one quotes Paul it is a good thing to see what Jesus said on the subject. Compare them side by side sometime.
No moral system survives totally on authority--particularly authority of written words that have so many gaps, additions, and obvious contradictions as the Bible. I'm not saying the Bible is worthless, I'm saying salvation is not found in scripture it is found in Jesus. The people Jesus welcomes are the people we should welcome, and if Jesus saw fit to honor the request of a homosexual centurion and cure his young "servant" and commend him for his faith, so should you.
Whenever one speaks against sin and not for the sinner, he does not serve as an example of Jesus.
So you actively recruit "sinful" homosexuals to come to your church? Would a homosexual couple feel as welcome in your church as any divorced couple? You fellowship with those "sinners?"
Would a homosexual have been comfortable around Jesus? Or do you think He confined His fellowship to less "evil" people? Have you any passages in the Bible showing how harshly JESUS spoke to sinners. I am only aware of His condemnation of the most religious, the most erudite bible readers of His day. You rely on Paul, and any time you wish to start a thread, I can post many instances where Paul, who never walked and talked with Jesus, simply misses the boat or contradicts the Son of God. Whenever one quotes Paul it is a good thing to see what Jesus said on the subject. Compare them side by side sometime.
No moral system survives totally on authority--particularly authority of written words that have so many gaps, additions, and obvious contradictions as the Bible. I'm not saying the Bible is worthless, I'm saying salvation is not found in scripture it is found in Jesus. The people Jesus welcomes are the people we should welcome, and if Jesus saw fit to honor the request of a homosexual centurion and cure his young "servant" and commend him for his faith, so should you.
Whenever one speaks against sin and not for the sinner, he does not serve as an example of Jesus.
The only church that I have ever been a member of didn't operate as you describe. The lay members did not bring people into the local church I attended. God the Father brought them in. God was the one doing the drawing and not men and we taught that as a doctrine:
John 6:44, John 6:65.
John 6:
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
I once asked my minister if my sister could start attending with me and he told me no. (You can forget about snubbing people because of their sexual orientation.)
The ministers had to visit the perspective members and examine them to make sure that they were being drawn to Christ by God and not just being drawn by their own curiosity and intellectual pursuits.
In my case, the local minister determined that I was being drawn by God to Christ and I was baptised and had hands placed on me to put me into the Body of Christ. I had repented of my sins and I read in the Bible and we taught that sexual misconduct, sex outside of marriage, was a sin and homosexuality wasn't even discussed because it was just common knowledge that everyone already took for granted was a sin.
We are to live by the Word of God and I do not approve of your diminishing the authority of the Bible in our lives with all of your literary criticism, but that's your choice and you will have to give an answer for it one day and not me.
I do know that from the scriptures that homosexuality is a sin and if one does not repent of it then at the end of the day this person will be thrown into the lake of fire and die the 2nd death. That's pretty plain to me but not so for you.
The only church that I have ever been a member of didn't operate as you describe. The lay members did not bring people into the local church I attended. God the Father brought them in. God was the one doing the drawing and not men and we taught that as a doctrine:
John 6:44, John 6:65.
John 6:
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
I once asked my minister if my sister could start attending with me and he told me no. (You can forget about snubbing people because of their sexual orientation.)
The ministers had to visit the perspective members and examine them to make sure that they were being drawn to Christ by God and not just being drawn by their own curiosity and intellectual pursuits.
In my case, the local minister determined that I was being drawn by God to Christ and I was baptized into the Body of Christ. I had repented of my sins and I read in the Bible and we taught that sexual misconduct, sex outside of marriage, was a sin and homosexuality wasn't even discussed because it was just common knowledge that everyone already took for granted was a sin.
We are to live by the Word of God and I do not approve of your diminishing the authority of the Bible in our lives with all of your literary criticism, but that's your choice and you will have to give an answer for it one day and not me.
I do know that from the scriptures that homosexuality is a sin and if one does not repent of it then at the end of the day this person will be thrown into the lake of fire and die the 2nd death. That's pretty plain to me but not so for you.
tthttf
I've never heard of a church that screened members before allowing them in.
Your minister sounds creepy and his church cult-ish.
I've never heard of a church that screened members before allowing them in.
Your minister sounds creepy and his church cult-ish.
They're out there. Some require an application and waiting period as well. I believe in the priesthood of the believer which is a concept of bottom up theology as opposed to top down authority. Almost all authoritarian churches practice some sort of religious bigotry. For them, their people are unable to read and understand scripture for themselves. They have to be led around. Sounds like tthttf belongs to one of those.
They're out there. Some require an application and waiting period as well. I believe in the priesthood of the believer which is a concept of bottom up theology as opposed to top down authority. Almost all authoritarian churches practice some sort of religious bigotry. For them, their people are unable to read and understand scripture for themselves. They have to be led around. Sounds like tthttf belongs to one of those.
They're out there. Some require an application and waiting period as well. I believe in the priesthood of the believer which is a concept of bottom up theology as opposed to top down authority. Almost all authoritarian churches practice some sort of religious bigotry. For them, their people are unable to read and understand scripture for themselves. They have to be led around. Sounds like tthttf belongs to one of those.
It explains a lot.
Well, your way brings spiritual anarchy and you will reap what you sow.
I know that homosexuality is an abominable sin and your way produces so much confusion that even though I believe that you know that it is a sin you won't admit it and you won't quit trying to lead people astray with your "intellectualism" and attempts to salve their conscience while they continue in their sins.
I suggest that you take the first step toward true Christianity and truly repent.
tthttf
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