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There is nothing to slice. Unless you think presenting the facts that you contrived to simply leave out is a "smoke screen" now.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
My point is to refute the point that homosexuality in no way, shape or fashion has ANY consequences.
And you are failing to refute it because you are contriving to misrepresent it. You are constructing an argument that is specifically about anal sex, and then simply pretending to yourself (and it is to yourself because not a single other person appears to be buying it) that anal sex and homosexuality are somehow synonyms of each other.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
The only way you can completely refute my point is to prove that homosexuals never have anal sex.
As per your usual MO you are contriving to dodge my point by demanding I support points I never once made. I never.... ever ever.... suggested the above at all. What I DID say.... as once again I pick your words out of my mouth.... is that they are not synonyms. That is to say not all homosexuals engage in anal sex. While many many heterosexuals DO. So an argument leveled against anal sex is NOT AN ARGUMENT levelled against homosexuality. At all. Even a little bit. So keep trying. It's a plain straight fact that you are trying to confuse here with pointless comparisons.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
I would even be willing to bet that unprotected intercourse is even safer than M2M sex since a condom would tear very easily with that activity and you have a much higher chance of having blood contact.
Bets are not evidence. Try and find actual studies that not only compare, but support your imagination, on the idea, between unprotected "normal" sex and protected anal sex. Support this with actual facts, not gambling that just happens to match your bias.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
The fact that you can't just simply address my point head on, and have to throw other groups into the equation to muddy the waters shows how weak your argument really is.
Nice revisionism of reality there. The fact is that it is you muddying the waters by cherry picking the groups that match your bias. If you want to level statistics against homosexuality, then you should include ALL homosexuals. Not JUST the groups that skew the figures in favor of the conclusion you desperately WANT to reach.
What an MO you have that you would pretend that including ALL the groups under the term "homosexuality" rather than the ones you want to cherry pick... is muddying the waters or not meeting your point head on. That is just comedy. It is you not meeting reality head on by simply dodging the figures and groups that do not support your anti homosexual agenda.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
"'Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
Nice that you pretend that that is anti homosexual. It is not. It is just telling you that if you engage in sex with other men you do not do it LIKE you would do it with women. Which is kind of stating the obvious.
But is it saying do not do it at all? Clearly not.
If I say "Do not try to use a hammer like it is a screw driver" would you take it that I was telling you not to use hammers? No, that is absurd. If I wanted you to not use hammers, I would tell you straight out: Do not use hammers.
Get with language there. Telling someone "Do not do X like you would do Y" is NOT the same as saying "Do not do X". Stop twisting language to meet your agenda. It is not honest.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Also, same sex marriage will create a societal norm that would encourage more ppl to experiment with homosexual sexual activities.
Still making stuff up I see. Societal norm has nothing to do with what a person is actually attracted to. You are either attracted to other men/women.... or you are not. Social normalization of homosexuality is not magically going to make people attracted to people they were not before. Surely the deep requirement you have to warp reality, make up facts, twist language, and skew statistics must at SOME point in your life make you wonder how shaky the ground really is under the little agenda you have against homosexuality.
Why can't the self-righteous homosexuals leave Christians alone? We only are speaking out because homosexuality encroaches into religious territory by demanding Christian business owners compromise their morals and bringing an unholy union into the house of God.
Legalization of SSM affects all of society in some way or fashion. Pretending that it has no effect is narrow minded thinking.
No, DIVORCE affects society in many, many ways and for society it is always negative regardless of how "positive" it might be for those who get divorced.
On the other hand you have pointed to high rates of STDs among homosexuals and I have pointed out that's because YOU don't want to allow them to marry. Marriage has some stabilizing affect on loyalty--not as much as it should---but some.
And you claim anal sex among homosexual men is the primary spread of STDs. However it is UNPROTECTED sex that is the culprit--including the larger number of heterosexual couples engaging in anal sex.
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In an exhaustive paper on the history of heterosexual anal sex, Bruce Voeller documents how for decades doctors, psychiatrists, and researchers from all disciplines have conspired to keep silent about heterosexual anal sex. Despite a great number of anecdotal resources, and statistics going back as far as Kinsey data from the late 30s, talk of heterosexuals engaging in anal sex is scarce, and reporting on data almost non-existent. Voeller suggests that this is, among other things, tied to taboos about anal sex, and homophobic beliefs that anal sex is only the domain of gay men. For this reason there are not nearly as good data on heterosexual anal sex throughout history as there is on other forms of sexual behavior. ANAL SEX STATISTICS Over time, statistics on anal sex indicate a substantial increase in people reporting anal sex, from a low of 9% in the Kinsey data (collected from 1938 to 1963) to a high of 34% of men in a national survey in 2002. But it’s impossible to know if this increase is an actual rise in anal sex, or simply a rise in how often anal sex is asked about and how often subjects respond honestly.
How Common Is Heterosexual Anal Sex?
If one-third of heterosexual men are engaging in anal sex with women, then those numbers vastly outnumber the approximate 2 1/2% male homosexual population even if everyone of the latter were engaged in anal sex.
So once again, your so called "negative" impacts on society mean absolutely nothing. It is the heterosexual involvement with anal sex that is significantly more likely to result in the spread of STDs.
Further, in a study of "sex workers" in 2012 it was found that roughly 22% of these prostitutes had engaged in anal sex to obtain better pay--and it was most often demanded by older men.
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Unprotected anal sex is associated with the highest risk of transmission of sexually transmitted infections (STIs) and the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV). The higher risk of STI/HIV transmission and acquisition is due to the highly vulnerable nature of the rectal mucosa and anal sphincter as any small tear of rectal mucosa in the receptive partner provides more opportunity for the transmission of HIV/STI. This risk is further increased if the receptive partner is female. The estimated increase in risk of HIV transmission may be 20-fold per receptive anal sex act compared to receptive vaginal sex.
Get your facts straight, and you will see yourself for what you are.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Matt. 23:23
No, DIVORCE affects society in many, many ways and for society it is always negative regardless of how "positive" it might be for those who get divorced.
On the other hand you have pointed to high rates of STDs among homosexuals and I have pointed out that's because YOU don't want to allow them to marry. Marriage has some stabilizing affect on loyalty--not as much as it should---but some.
And you claim anal sex among homosexual men is the primary spread of STDs. However it is UNPROTECTED sex that is the culprit--including the larger number of heterosexual couples engaging in anal sex.
Your points are nothing more than blame shifting and misdirection. The topic isn't DIVORCE. Ok, divorce has been bad for society, so what? How does that negate homosexuality as a sin? Again, I ask, is homosexuality a sin, yes or no? Your persistent dodging of this question only serves to publically undermine the credibility of your commentary.
Then to blame STDS on Christians isn't barely worth acknowledging. With that logic, we should let bank robbers go free because it is Christian politicians who wrote tax laws that keep people in poverty. Sin is still sin, and there are consequences to having sex outside of God's design. The devil made me do it won't fly on judgement day either. The lack of personal accountability and putting the blame on someone else is one of the social ills befallen on a nation that once honored and worshiped God.
As for your claims about anal sex, the facts aren't on your side. The larger number? Are you really claiming that more heterosexuals are having anal sex than gay men? Protected or not, it is a much more dangerous activity. Here are some FACTS:
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Is Anal Sex Safe?
There are a number of health risks with anal sex, and anal intercourse is the riskiest form of sexual activity for several reasons, including the following:
The anus lacks the natural lubrication the vagina has. Penetration can tear the tissue inside the anus, allowing bacteria and viruses to enter the bloodstream. This can result in the spread of sexually transmitted infections including HIV. Studies have suggested that anal exposure to HIV poses 30 times more risk for the receptive partner than vaginal exposure.
Heck, even if the partners don't have a STD, there is danger. This fact alone puts anal sex as being more dangerous than intercourse:
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The anus is full of bacteria. Even if both partners do not have a sexually-transmitted infection or disease, bacteria normally in the anus can potentially infect the giving partner. Practicing vaginal sex after anal sex can also lead to vaginal and urinary tract infections.
Then to blame STDS on Christians isn't barely worth acknowledging.
Depends really on who you are blaming, and exactly what for. The Christians who preach that condom use is immoral very much have their hands dirty in the global blame for STD propagation. As do the missionaries that have preached such things specifically in places ravaged by AIDS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Protected or not, it is a much more dangerous activity. Here are some FACTS:
Funny how you just repeated your claim that it is more dangerous "Protected or not" yet despite the line "here are some facts" you have not offered any to support that claim.
Once again, since you just ignored my post above (again) where I asked you: Where are your facts and studies directly comparing _protected_ anal sex against _unprotected_.
Your points are nothing more than blame shifting and misdirection. The topic isn't DIVORCE. Ok, divorce has been bad for society, so what? How does that negate homosexuality as a sin? Again, I ask, is homosexuality a sin, yes or no? Your persistent dodging of this question only serves to publically undermine the credibility of your commentary.
Then to blame STDS on Christians isn't barely worth acknowledging. With that logic, we should let bank robbers go free because it is Christian politicians who wrote tax laws that keep people in poverty. Sin is still sin, and there are consequences to having sex outside of God's design. The devil made me do it won't fly on judgement day either. The lack of personal accountability and putting the blame on someone else is one of the social ills befallen on a nation that once honored and worshiped God.
As for your claims about anal sex, the facts aren't on your side. The larger number? Are you really claiming that more heterosexuals are having anal sex than gay men? Protected or not, it is a much more dangerous activity. Here are some FACTS:
Heck, even if the partners don't have a STD, there is danger. This fact alone puts anal sex as being more dangerous than intercourse:
Your points are nothing more than blame shifting and misdirection. The topic isn't DIVORCE. Ok, divorce has been bad for society, so what? How does that negate homosexuality as a sin? Again, I ask, is homosexuality a sin, yes or no? Your persistent dodging of this question only serves to publically undermine the credibility of your commentary.
As for your claims about anal sex, the facts aren't on your side. The larger number? Are you really claiming that more heterosexuals are having anal sex than gay men? Protected or not, it is a much more dangerous activity.
The bolded above should be the MINIMUM of your belief regarding homosexuality.
Regarding your inability to do math from my previous post, if one-third of heterosexual men have anal sex and we have 330 million people, slightly less than half are men. Subtract the 2% of men that are homosexual and there are roughly 47% of the population that are heterosexual men. Multiply that by 330 million and you get a figure of just over 51 million. There are only 6.5 million homosexual men in the United States--and there are no figures indicating how many of them have anal sex--but regardless it cannot be as frequently as heterosexual men. Period.
From the link I provided on sex workers, a large majority of men that utilized their "services" and wanted anal sex DID NOT USE condoms. By sheer numbers alone you should be spending some time on a thread urging heterosexual males to refrain from anal sex.
What you continue to do with every post is commit sin--over and over and over.
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Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?
James 4:11-12 ESV
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Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Ephesians 4:29 ESV
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To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior.
Titus 3:2-7 ESV
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“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”
Luke 6:37-39 ESV
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Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind. Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing. For “Whoever desires to love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit; let him turn away from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it. For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”
I Peter 3:8-12 ESV
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I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Matt 12:36-37 ESV
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Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Rom 12:21
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For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart
Hebrews 4:12 ESV
Sorry, jeff, but your heart has been weighed in the balances and found wanting. I've given you more NT quotes about how to treat others than there are verses supposedly speaking of homosexuality in the entire Bible. Which will you be judged by? Which should you be concerned with?
If you can't deny marital privileges for heterosexuals who have anal sex, you can't deny marriage to same sex couples on that basis. Try again, please
You are wildly distorting my original point which is that there are real life consequences to the gay lifestyle. Now unless you can prove to me that most gay men never have anal sex, it's a fact.
The bolded above should be the MINIMUM of your belief regarding homosexuality.
Regarding your inability to do math from my previous post, if one-third of heterosexual men have anal sex and we have 330 million people, slightly less than half are men. Subtract the 2% of men that are homosexual and there are roughly 47% of the population that are heterosexual men. Multiply that by 330 million and you get a figure of just over 51 million. There are only 6.5 million homosexual men in the United States--and there are no figures indicating how many of them have anal sex--but regardless it cannot be as frequently as heterosexual men. Period.
So now you are saying I'm too stupid to do math? You betray your own claims of true Christianity by directly insulting people who disagree with you.
So you ignore all the facts I posted and continue to misdirect with a lot of assumptions and NO facts. What have you proven anyways? How does your statements take away from the real life physical consequences of anal sex? The facts still show that gays are contracting STDS a lot more frequently than heterosexuals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
From the link I provided on sex workers, a large majority of men that utilized their "services" and wanted anal sex DID NOT USE condoms. By sheer numbers alone you should be spending some time on a thread urging heterosexual males to refrain from anal sex.
What you continue to do with every post is commit sin--over and over and over.
James 4:11-12 ESV
Ephesians 4:29 ESV
Titus 3:2-7 ESV
Luke 6:37-39 ESV
I Peter 3:8-12 ESV
Matt 12:36-37 ESV
Rom 12:21
Hebrews 4:12 ESV
Sorry, jeff, but your heart has been weighed in the balances and found wanting. I've given you more NT quotes about how to treat others than there are verses supposedly speaking of homosexuality in the entire Bible. Which will you be judged by? Which should you be concerned with?
Only God knows the condition of my heart. I'm sorry if my comments offend people, but this is an online message board, not real life. No one is forcing them to read what I say, and you don't know how I treat people in my daily walk so drop the judgement act. It only makes you look like a hypocrite since you are the one doing most of the judging against your fellow Christians.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Why can't the self-righteous homosexuals leave Christians alone? We only are speaking out because homosexuality encroaches into religious territory by demanding Christian business owners compromise their morals and bringing an unholy union into the house of God.
Legalization of SSM affects all of society in some way or fashion. Pretending that it has no effect is narrow minded thinking.
Yes is affects society. Of course.
But what are the negative effects? I can think of a lot of positive, humanitarian ones, but no negative one. Help us out with some specific examples of your thinking.
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