Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-01-2008, 09:59 AM
 
25,080 posts, read 16,286,973 times
Reputation: 41803

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Every church has the right to create its own rules (and dogma). The only recourse you have is to find another church.

You did not say what denomination the church is - that would give us a clue as to the core beliefs. If the congregation is associated w/ a larger governing body, then the beliefs they espouse are dictated by that body, i.e., Southern Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, etc.

Some churches are quite strict about such things as an unwed mother. Most are not.

As other posters have suggested - you need to find another church. These people sound way way too conservative for the 21st Century.

God loves everyone.
The church is a non-denominational church. It is really ironic the name of the church is New Destiny, but they are holding someones past against them. They do a lot of community work and have a homeless shelter out reach. This whole thing is confusing. One of the reasons u attend a non-denominational church is not to become indoctrinated with legalism and tradition, yet this is what going on here. I am grieved in my spirit that this church is willing to "throw the baby out with the bath water" so as to speak. The most important think is to win souls. Why are not these two souls a priority for the church? Why r the traditions of men making the word of God of no effect? I am just tired of religion in Christianity. I have to be careful what I do because I am concerned about these two little souls. I can walk away from this church no problem. I have prayed for the baby and with the mother. I am good with that. The mom wants the formality. It means something to her...maybe love and acceptance and a symbol of doing the right thing. I guess u r right especially since the church is non-denominational, the pastors has a right to make his own rules. He has no one to answer to from a legal point of view, but GOD.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-01-2008, 10:14 AM
 
13,640 posts, read 24,434,996 times
Reputation: 18580
IMO, we spend too much precious time finding fault and sin in each of our neighbors beliefs and their place of worship..I have finally learned that if I am uncomfortable in the midst of a religious group, that I am to get out and move on..The sooner, the better
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 10:31 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,146,032 times
Reputation: 22750
Default I am stunned

Quote:
Originally Posted by sun queen View Post
The church is a non-denominational church. It is really ironic the name of the church is New Destiny, but they are holding someones past against them. They do a lot of community work and have a homeless shelter out reach. This whole thing is confusing. One of the reasons u attend a non-denominational church is not to become indoctrinated with legalism and tradition, yet this is what going on here. I am grieved in my spirit that this church is willing to "throw the baby out with the bath water" so as to speak. The most important think is to win souls. Why are not these two souls a priority for the church? Why r the traditions of men making the word of God of no effect? I am just tired of religion in Christianity. I have to be careful what I do because I am concerned about these two little souls. I can walk away from this church no problem. I have prayed for the baby and with the mother. I am good with that. The mom wants the formality. It means something to her...maybe love and acceptance and a symbol of doing the right thing. I guess u r right especially since the church is non-denominational, the pastors has a right to make his own rules. He has no one to answer to from a legal point of view, but GOD.
Amazing. I am truly shocked at the legalism and judgmental stance. Sounds to me that people are just making up the rules as they go, LOL. I thought if the church were associated w/ a larger body, then you had recourse. And I am truly surprised that this church is non-denominational and yet seems to have such a legalistic bent.

I do not mean to offend anyone here, as I know people who attend a very legalistic church (Church of Christ) and my feeling is - if it works for you and you are happy there, then far be it from me to comment - as I have the right to worship (or not worship) as I choose. But IMHO, the CoC is extremely legalistic, and this "New Destiny" church sounds cut from the same mindset "cloth," as it were.

This is very troubling as God loves us all and the church is supposed to be a gathering of SINNERS, not a community of perfect people sitting around waiting to slam someone who they believe has "failed." That is my problem w/ legalistic churches - the spreading of misery, guilt, self-doubt, and the mentality of "ratting out" anyone who has not perfectly toed the line (and who can do that, anyway???? We are all sinners).

This hurts me to even hear about it. This is what gives Christians a bad name. I read on another thread - something about - how God judges us, how we are supposed to have rules, etc. etc. and everyone has to stand in judgment, etc. etc. I thought - yeah, but the point is - God does that, not man. Yet, I see people beating others on the head w/ their Bible quotes to prove "you sinned" or "you are under the Devil's influence," and my thought is - excuse me . . .if you accept God can only judge, WHY ARE YOU JUDGING????? Why do so many people feel it somehow elevates them to sit in judgment of others? Why do they seem to spend their lives setting everyone else "straight?" (Judge not, lest ye be judged)

I know you are hurt, disappointed and wounded b/c you tried to help this young lady and she was cruelly rejected. I promise you, there are plenty of other churches out there who would embrace the opportunity to welcome her and her baby into their fold. You just happen to not have been involved w/ that type of church. How could you know? They appear to be doing good things in the community. Their outward acts have sugar coated their judgmental attitude, it appears.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 10:46 AM
 
Location: NC
14,691 posts, read 17,026,769 times
Reputation: 1504
Quote:
I do not mean to offend anyone here, as I know people who attend a very legalistic church (Church of Christ) and my feeling is - if it works for you and you are happy there, then far be it from me to comment - as I have the right to worship (or not worship) as I choose. But IMHO, the CoC is extremely legalistic, and this "New Destiny" church sounds cut from the same mindset "cloth," as it were.
Hi, in all fairness to the COC, I would like to share that the church (body of Christ) is made of of individuals and all do not have the legalistic mindset which may be characteristic of a number of congregations or denominations. I use to be a member of the COC and the congregations differed as well as the individuals in the congregations. Some congregations were more legalistic than others but even within the legalistic congregations there were individuals who varied also in their stance on certain issues. One congregation in particular that I attended was very open to receiving people in their situations, very sweet and humble people, the majority were. And it was to a COC congregation that I was able to go to the elders and explain a situation to them and receive help even though other places may have turned a deaf ear based on the circumstances and been judgmental of me. So I think that I am just saying that we can't label a congregation or group and say that this is characteristic of all. Just some thoughts, God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 01-01-2008 at 10:57 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 12:14 PM
 
25,080 posts, read 16,286,973 times
Reputation: 41803
Well I want to thank everyone for the advice, comments, counsel and input. I so appreciate your support and kind words. U all have moved me with your passion for Jesus and words of wisdom. Well I was thinking carnally for minute. I thought about what steps I could take and I knew the right thing to do was to go directly to the pastor with my concerns. The pastor was gracious enough to explain to me that his church honors the marriage covenant and all scriptures pertaining to covenant are appropriate. Since, marriage is honorable and the bed undifiled...He said the baby cannot be dedicated before the congregation as this would dishonor marriage, and he as the leader of the church would have to give an account before GOD. He also said this is just the way "they" do it at New Destiny; furthermore, he would not dedicate his own sister's baby born outside of the covenant of marriage. He said they are not trying to dedicate the baby in secrete and it is important for the baby to be dedicated. I did my best to explain my position and convey how the mother feels. I have to respect his authority. He said she should call him directly. After hearing what his position is I realized I can do nothing accept respect "their" way of doing things even though I do not agree. What does the marriage bed have to do with dedicating a child? After all a child has no control over the marital status of his or her parents. The ministry is to the child and for the benefit of the child. While the church is not directly denying the child this benefit, "they" r adding stipulations and suggesting that the child with married parents is deserving of more honor than the one who is born to a single mother. One Sunday out of the month this church has all the children come to the altar and they pray for them before all the congregation. Now I am sure a lot of these children r from single parent households and their parents were not married. If this church can take the time and care to minister to children in general because children r important-then how can the pastor justify not dedicating babies before the congregation on the basis of status? I don't believe the pastor is being malicious intentionally. I think he is sincere in what he believe on this issue, but this is differential treatment. It is wrong. I do not believe GOD is pleased with this. The policy of this church sends a conflicting message to the lost and those trying to be found. The policy implies justification is from man and not GOD. That is not scriptual or honoring the marraige covenant. I could make the arguement that this young woman is married. She is a new creature in Christ. Old things are passed away. Behold all things are knew. God does not remember her sins...and HE is FATHER. There is a scripture in the OT that says "...Your maker the Lord is your husband." Another says "HE is married to the backslider." And yet another says HE is the BRIDEGROOM. The pastor cannot put forth any scripture that supports not dedicating this child before the congregation. GOD is no respector of persons. If this were the case the gentiles could never be a part of the Church. This arbitrary standard of this particular church is contradictory...it is having respector of persons. What about what the Bible says about offending the fatherles and widows? The Bible says to be careful...GOD will take up their cause. The child belongs to God and so should the church. I am convenience the pastor's teaching is in error on this matter, but I have to remember he is but flesh- a work in progress. He is a far cry from perfect and is not infallible. However, to his credit he is willing to dedicate the baby in the sanctuary following the main church service. I am going to suffer the wrong and turn the other cheek. My grandmother use to say "2 wrong is never right." I must submit to an even HIGHER AUTHORITY. I explained to this young girl all that the pastor had said and suggested she talk directly to him. She was not interested in talking to him. I think she is too shy and maybe a little bit intimidated. She said it is about family anyway, but she will take a few days to think about what she wants to do. I don't think there is any way I can take the unpleasantness of the message this policy has sent to the least of one of GOD'S children. I think all I can do is pray. I would just like to ask everyone to pray for her and her baby. Pray that she will not be heart-broken and fall away. Thanks everyone
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 12:40 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,146,032 times
Reputation: 22750
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Hi, in all fairness to the COC, I would like to share that the church (body of Christ) is made of of individuals and all do not have the legalistic mindset which may be characteristic of a number of congregations or denominations. I use to be a member of the COC and the congregations differed as well as the individuals in the congregations. Some congregations were more legalistic than others but even within the legalistic congregations there were individuals who varied also in their stance on certain issues. One congregation in particular that I attended was very open to receiving people in their situations, very sweet and humble people, the majority were. And it was to a COC congregation that I was able to go to the elders and explain a situation to them and receive help even though other places may have turned a deaf ear based on the circumstances and been judgmental of me. So I think that I am just saying that we can't label a congregation or group and say that this is characteristic of all. Just some thoughts, God bless.
I really appreciate your insight and information on this, Shana, and I do hope I did not offend anyone w/ what I said. The people I know who attend CoC have expressed their own struggles to me w/ the legalistic nature of their church, and that is the only reason I even know anything about the church. They are really good people - just feel they are walking such a tight rope.

You are very right to say that one should not label all congregations b/c of something in one particular congregation. Again, I did not mean to offend anyone, and apologize if it did.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 12:44 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,146,032 times
Reputation: 22750
Default SunQueen:

You and the young mother and her child will all be in my prayers. Ani
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Just a few miles outside of St. Louis
1,921 posts, read 5,609,501 times
Reputation: 1250
The action by this pastor sets my teeth on edge. I have been in churches like this, and I have absolutely zero patience with this kind of thinking. Whatever the marital status of this young lady, this church has no business treating this child differently than other children. How charitable of the pastor, that he is willing to dedicate the baby, after the main church service. Is he afraid that some sin may rub off on the congregation? They do, indeed, have the right to set their own doctrine/dogma, but, I can tell you right now, that I would shake the dust of this narrow little church off of my feet! I would not subject myself, and especially not my child to this behavior. Christian love, indeed! I don't recall reading in the NT where Jesus refused to bless certain children, because of their parent's marital status, ( and presumably, he would have known).

Sun Queen, bless you for taking an interest in this young lady and her baby. Perhaps, through you, she will continue to seek her Creator, and understand that not all Christians act in such an un-Christ-like fashion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 01:28 PM
 
Location: NC
14,691 posts, read 17,026,769 times
Reputation: 1504
Quote:
I really appreciate your insight and information on this, Shana, and I do hope I did not offend anyone w/ what I said. The people I know who attend CoC have expressed their own struggles to me w/ the legalistic nature of their church, and that is the only reason I even know anything about the church. They are really good people - just feel they are walking such a tight rope.

You are very right to say that one should not label all congregations b/c of something in one particular congregation. Again, I did not mean to offend anyone, and apologize if it did.
That's okay, Anifani821.Thanks and God bless!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-01-2008, 01:35 PM
 
Location: NC
14,691 posts, read 17,026,769 times
Reputation: 1504
Hi Sun queen, I agree with your belief that the pastor is in error. You have made some very valid points. Maybe in time his thinking will come around. Like you said, he is a work in progress. I will pray for the mother and her child. Thanks for sharing and God bless you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top