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Old 10-23-2014, 02:06 PM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,087,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Here is the context:

Mark 11:22-24 And answering, Jesus is saying to them, "If you have faith of God, (23) verily, I am saying to you that whosoever may be saying to this mountain, 'Be picked up and cast into the sea,' and may not be doubting in his heart, but should be believing that what he is speaking is occurring, it shall be his, whatsoever he may be saying." (24) Therefore I am saying to you, All, whatever you are praying and requesting, be believing that you obtained, and it will be yours."

1) That was only during the era of the kingdom powers.
2) They have to have the faith of God to believe what they pray for will occur.
3) I don't think Jesus was telling them to pray for mansions of Lear Jets and Yachts.
Did i say that?. Jesus taught believe you have received what you are praying/desiring for and you shall have them.

Now tell me does Jesus Christ have is desire that all are saved and come to a knowledge of the truth(which when all said and done is our salvation)?.
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:15 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,100 posts, read 790,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
jimmiej, that doesn't matter. God specifically told us to charge and teach that God will have all mankind to be saved and that God is the Saviour of all mankind.

So if there is, according to you, evidence that refutes God saving all mankind then that evidence is patently WRONG.

So, jimmiej, does your minister charge and teach God will save all or that "God will NOT save all"?
If every one has been saved, then why be commanded to teach? Do not believers get persecuted for teaching the Good News? Has there not been enough martyrs to give it up? If what you say is true, then why bother preaching at all; everybody will find out sooner or later.

Plus; if everybody has been saved, then everybody has the seal of the Holy Ghost, but no so.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Seems kind of a redundant thing to add if everybody has been saved, right?

So you are reading the words wrong in the scripture regarding those two verses in the OP.

God is able to save all, but not all will believe in the hearing of the gospel to be saved.
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:40 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,887,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
There is no such critter as "free will." Mankind has a will. That will is the will of the flesh (Eph.2:3; John 1:13). The flesh is not able to please God (Rom.8:8). Therefore the will of man is not able to please God, those who are in flesh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Simple: Christ desired them to come, and they refused. Period. They used their free will to go against God's desire.
Mat 13:14 And filled up in them is the prophecy of Isaiah, that is saying,
'"In hearing, you will be hearing, and may by no means be understanding,
And observing, you will be observing, and may by no means be perceiving.
Mat 13:15 For stoutened is the heart of this people,
And with their ears heavily they hear,
And with their eyes they squint,
Lest at some time they may be perceiving with their eyes,
And with their ears should be hearing,
And with their heart may be understanding,
And should be turning about,
And I shall be healing them.'

Mat_23:37 Jerusalem! Jerusalem! who art killing the prophets and pelting with stones those who have been dispatched to her! How many times do I want to assemble your children in the manner a hen is assembling her brood under her wings-and you will not!"

Christ is not the Invisible God Who fills Heaven and Earth. Jesus wanted the cup to pass by him but God had His will be done.
Did you notice Matthew 23:37 was written a long time after Matthew 13:14,15? Jesus knew darn well why they would not come.

Why could they not come? They could not because God was still blinding them.
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:44 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,887,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorInSpirit View Post
If every one has been saved, then why be commanded to teach? Do not believers get persecuted for teaching the Good News? Has there not been enough martyrs to give it up? If what you say is true, then why bother preaching at all; everybody will find out sooner or later.

Plus; if everybody has been saved, then everybody has the seal of the Holy Ghost, but no so.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Seems kind of a redundant thing to add if everybody has been saved, right?

So you are reading the words wrong in the scripture regarding those two verses in the OP.

God is able to save all, but not all will believe in the hearing of the gospel to be saved.

Why do you folks keep repeating, as if I actually said it, that all mankind are already saved? All mankind have not entered into salvation yet.

Now the question should be: If everyone IS GOING TO BE saved, why preach? We preach the evangel so that those who are chosen, will believe.

God is not trying to bring all mankind into the enjoyment of salvation at this point in time. God is saving only the chosen right now. The rest come later.
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:14 PM
 
Location: NC
14,696 posts, read 17,026,769 times
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Quote:
do you folks keep repeating, as if I actually said it, that all mankind are
already saved? All mankind have not entered into salvation yet.

Now the
question should be: If everyone IS GOING TO BE saved, why preach? We preach the
evangel so that those who are chosen, will believe.

God is not trying to
bring all mankind into the enjoyment of salvation at this point in time. God is
saving only the chosen right now. The rest come later.
Amen It is not God's plan to save all right now. Believers are the first
fruits of the harvest. James tells us:

James 1
17 Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. 18 In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures .
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:26 PM
 
Location: NC
14,696 posts, read 17,026,769 times
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Quote:

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the
Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he
is none of his
Hi, all do not have the Spirit of Christ now. Eventually they will when God becomes all in all (1 Cor. 15) Also, Jesus has been made heir of all things according to Hebrews 1, meaning that ultimately all things do belong to Him.

Hebrews 1

"God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.


God bless.
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:34 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
No, Christ did not get His desire regarding the Jews.

"How often I have
wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her
wings, but you wouldn't let me."
This was ultimately according to God's plan. It was not His intention to restore all of the Jews to Himself at that time. They were really carrying out the intention of God, not their own free will. Just like those who crucified the Lord were wrong for doing this, but it was God's intention for this to happen. He handed Jesus over to them.

Romans 11


For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27
“This is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches [l]both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? 35 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.


God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 10-23-2014 at 08:54 PM..
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:38 PM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,726,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Hi, all do not have the Spirit of Christ now. Eventually they will when God becomes all in all (1 Cor. 15) Also, Jesus has been made heir of all things according to Hebrews 1, meaning that ultimately all things do belong to Him.
It is supremely illogical that God would withhold the guidance of the Comforter from ANYONE, period. Christ abides with us and is available within our consciousness to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" in agape love. Just because so many ignore or do not even seek that guidance does NOT mean God withheld it from anyone. We are willful and often oblivious, self-centered creatures who ignore the inner guidance in pursuit of our pleasures and whims. Like alcoholics or other substance abusers we can even act in denial of the existence of the guidance. None of that means that God did not send the Comforter to us ALL.
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:38 PM
 
Location: NC
14,696 posts, read 17,026,769 times
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Quote:
"All those who do good to the resurrection of life"

"The righteous will
shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father."
Yes, I agree. Thanks for sharing. God bless.
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:51 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
Shana, you are absolute right, there is no eternal death, death will be
abolished at the end of the Millennium. All will be made alive means all will be
resurrected and live forever. The question we have to ask, where will they live?
The First Resurrection is clear, they have died in Christ or are alive in Christ
and they get an immortal body living forever in Christ, the second death has no
power over them. Who is the second death? It is the lake of fire. The word death
does not refer to their body, because the body is immortal and cannot die. So
what death does the lake of fire represent? Not the death of the body, because
the body cannot die after the resurrection, death is not eternal. The lake of
fire is called second death, because all that are spiritual dead are thrown into
it and they live there forever, because they cannot die, therefor they are
called carcases, which worm will not die. This is an eternal state as everything
is in the new earth. Only the sons of God get the inheritance with Christ, the
choosen ones. The unrighteous and wicked perish forever, that means they are in
the lake of fire and are spiritual dead for ever, that is what the bible
teaches, you certainly do not agree with it, but it will not change anything. So
the destiny of the righteous and the unrighteous is written in the bible, they
represent the dead now in Heaven and hell. But there is a third group which are
now in Sheol, they are not in Heaven nor in hell, they await their resurrection,
which is the second one and will be all the dead from Adam to the last in the
Millennium. Christianity teaches they are all thrown into the lake of fire. But
the bible says only them that are not found in the book of life. There must be a
book of life in the days of Moses, and God only blotted out the wicked, their
will be a book of life also for them in the Millennium, and when Christians will
be found in hell, they will also be found in the Sheol and when their judgement
will be positive and they are not plotted out of the book of life, they will go
into life, but they went through the fire. God is a God of justice also, He can
save everyone He wants and He does. But they that have rebelled agaist Him He
will not allow into His Kingdom, which is of love and harmony, a perfect unity.
Every human can choose. God knows who will choose rigtheousness and who loves
darkness from the beginning and is a rebell. This world is a harvest, producing
wheat and tares. If the wheat remains wheat forever, the tares will be the same
also forever. We have to make sure, that we believe in Christ and remaine in Him
to inherit eternal salvation.
Hi Zur, I believe that when all are made alive in Christ, they will be saved=healed, delivered, set free from sin and death.

zoopeio= made alive=raising the dead to life, generally used in reference to salvation, answering to the Pauline connection between righteousness and life.
(Hebrew/Greek Key Word Study Bible)

This means that they will all be made righteous.

Such is the power of God.

1 Cor. 15
20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.


The purpose of the lake of fire is to destroy all that is evil and sinful. Jesus will undo what happened when Adam disobeyed and death entered the creation. Jesus will abolish all death. All will be made subject to Jesus for the purpose of God being all in all. This means that there will be no one living in an immortal body in a state of eternal death. When God becomes all in all, no kind of death will exist.

Romans 8 tells us the creation is to be delivered and changed into the glorious freedom of the children of God. Again, who is excluded from God's creation?

God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 10-23-2014 at 08:11 PM..
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