Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
At any time one overcomes, not just in the far off. Enoch, Elijah, Moses, John the beloved, Mary (virgin) disciples, followers past and present, they are the few which Christ spoke of, not the masses that die, while still in sin.
Pre-fall in Paradise it was already so, after fall, animals were meat, and killed for skins etc...(ibid)Ch. 2:1-3 says that God rested on the 7th day. How can it still be the 6th?
He's already rested?
The promise is to all who ask they will receive, to all who seek, they will find, and knock, the door will be opened.
repeat of above comment regarding God already rested.
freedom
Dear freedom,
IF you're trying to tell us that all animals were vegetarian in the past '"pre-fall", please provide Scripture to support your opinion or else everybody will see that you're just whistling in the wind.
Also, please explain further your understanding of this so called "Fall Theory". I am all ears.
IF you're trying to tell us that all animals were vegetarian in the past '"pre-fall", please provide Scripture to support your opinion or else everybody will see that you're just whistling in the wind.
The first chapter of Genesis states that herbs and grasses were given for meat.
Quote:
Also, please explain further your understanding of this so called "Fall Theory". I am all ears.
God Bless
The fall of man into sin came about through dis obedience and the deceptions of Satan.
You still have not answered my questions about why there needs to be billions of years added to the bible. Is not God all powerful? Does he need that much time? Explain to me why all that extra time is biblically necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Pillars
Dear mams,
Like most young earthers, you cannot use Scripture to support your opinions. You can only use your interpretational methods which don't agree with Scripture, Science, nor History. You base your "proper interpretation" on your religion's views.
And how exactly did you arrive at this startling conclusion? What am I misinterpreting? What I'm doing is reading Genesis 1 and looking at what it says. I'm reading the geneologies in Genesis that start with Adam and go all the way through Noah and on through Abraham. Where's all the missing years I'm supposed to readily see? There's no need for special interpretation of Genesis. It's not a vision. It's not allegory or metaphor. It's not a parable. It is written in historic, narrative prose. Without outside influence brought to bear upon the word of God, there's absolutely no reason to add millions or billions of years to the account of creation. And leaving Genesis speak for itself does not conflict with any other part of scripture. When people feel the need to tweak or twist or re-invent what Genesis clearly states, that's when it begins to conflict with scripture.
Oh, and BTW, empirical science does not contradict the bible. Scientific greats (Newton, Pasture and others) believed the bible and in the creator God of the bible and their science has held up just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Pillars
There was no 24 Hour Day and Genesis 1 does not state that there was a 24 hour Day. Genesis shows that God has 6 Creative Days, and 1 Day of Rest which will Never End. How do you explain that you think God has more than 7 Days?
I never said God had more than 7 days. He created during the first six and rested on the 7th. What's different is you're stretching each of the days into millions of years. Whereas I am following the plain meaning of the passages and drawing the simple conclusion that evening + night + # day = a literal, 24 hour day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Pillars
"Yom" (Hebrew) - is a period of Time, existed before the Sun, Moon, and Stars of the 4th Day. Therefore, it has nothing to do with your 24hrs/day earth time assumption. Jesus provided the "DAY LIGHT" (yom) in the beginning of creation when God said "LET THERE BE LIGHT" (Alpha) just the same as He will provide the Light for Heaven, which has no need of the Sun, nor Moon to shine in it (Omega) Revelation 21:23.
God Bless
Yes, yom can mean an unspecified period of time. However, even some of the best Hebrew scholars (who aren't even religious) agree the way yom is used in Genesis, as when it's used elsewhere in the scriptures in the same manner, with qualifiers such as "evening" "morning" and/or numbered, means a literal, 24 hour day.
I agree that God provided supernatural light, and that's the light spoken of before the sun and moon and stars were created. How does that automatically mean day 1 was longer than 24 hours? It doesn't follow. Yes, humans use the sun and moon to measure time from our perspective on earth. However, God is the creator of time. He created the days themselves. Why would he try to confuse us by using a different time standard for creation than what we used to mark off the week and end with the sabbath? There's no need to.
When God gave the commandment to honor the sabbath he told them specifically he created in 6 days and rested on the seventh and so we should keep the seventh day holy. If we're still in the 7th day, are we in a perpetual state of keeping the sabbath? How does your view then correlate to Hebrews 4?
The first chapter of Genesis states that herbs and grasses were given for meat.
The fall of man into sin came about through dis obedience and the deceptions of Satan.
freedom
However, Genesis 1:30 does Not say will become. It says and it was so.Since it has Never been so, that every animal was a vegetarian, it should be obvious that this is Prophecy of the events which will occur at the end of the present 6th Day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
Pre-fall in Paradise it was already so, after fall, animals were meat, and killed for skins etc...(ibid)Ch. 2:1-3 says that God rested on the 7th day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Pillars
IF you're trying to tell us that all animals were vegetarian in the past '"pre-fall", please provide Scripture to support your opinion or else everybody will see that you're just whistling in the wind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
The first chapter of Genesis states that herbs and grasses were given for meat.
Dear freedom,
Based on your religious view and following your logic, that all animals were vegetarians during the “Pre-fall” of A&E, then, these future prophecies in Isaiah 11 must have been mistranslated and wrong, since it already happened – based on your religious opinion, correct? Look and read..
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: v2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; v3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: v4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.v5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.v6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. v7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
So, tell us freedom, based on your understanding of Gen.1:29-30 being history already -- leopards and kids were sleeping together; and the lions were eating grass like the ox, before the “fall” (pre-fall) my simple question is, where did these kids come from leading the lions and fatlings before the making of Adam & Eve (Genesis 2)?
Like most young earthers, you cannot use Scripture to support your opinions. You can only use your interpretational methods which don't agree with Scripture, Science, nor History. You base your "proper interpretation" on your religion's views.
There was no 24 Hour Day and Genesis 1 does not state that there was a 24 hour Day. Genesis shows that God has 6 Creative Days, and 1 Day of Rest which will Never End. How do you explain that you think God has more than 7 Days?
"Yom" (Hebrew) - is a period of Time, existed before the Sun, Moon, and Stars of the 4th Day. Therefore, it has nothing to do with your 24hrs/day earth time assumption. Jesus provided the "DAY LIGHT" (yom) in the beginning of creation when God said "LET THERE BE LIGHT" (Alpha) just the same as He will provide the Light for Heaven, which has no need of the Sun, nor Moon to shine in it (Omega) Revelation 21:23.
God Bless
The Hebrew meaning of YOM is always qualified by the CONTEXT. The Hebrew word for day, YOM, occurs some 2,304 times in the OT. The vast majority of those usages depict a 24-hour day. This is ESPECIALLY true when the term in used with simple numbers and ordinal numbers (first, second, third, etc.). God DETERMINED through His creation that there would be a system of lightness and darkness, the light would be called day and the dark would be called night. At the first there was nothing but darkness and formlessness. God created light and then separated it from the darkness forming an EVENING and a MORNING for the FIRST DAY! Then God separated the waters from above and below and there was EVENING and MORNING the SECOND DAY. Next God created the land, the seas and vegetation, and there was EVENING and MORNING the THIRD DAY. After the creation of DAY and NIGHT, evening and morning, God created those things that would forever govern those things and regulate the 24-hour day and the SEASONS and YEARS. What are seasons without twenty-four hour days and what are years without twenty-four hour days? What are months without 24-hour days? The 24-hour day is the foundation for it all. That is why God created it! And all of this was done to set up the system to support life--especially human life.
If God intended YOM in Genesis 1 and 2 to refer to ages instead of twenty-hour days, where is there any indication that that SAME word takes on a DIFFERENT meaning shortly thereafter. For example:
Genesis 7:4--"for yet seven DAYS . . . to rain upon the earth seven DAYS"
Genesis 7:4--"and it came about after seven DAYS"
Genesis 7:11--"the seventeenth DAY of the month."
Genesis 7:14--"the rain was upon the earth forty DAYS."
Genesis 8:3--"the end of the one hundred and fifty DAYS"
Genesis 8:4--"the SEVENTEENTH DAY of the month"
Genesis 8:14--"the seven and TWENTIETH DAY of the month"
Genesis 21:4--"being eight DAYS old"
Genesis 31:22--"it was told Laban on the THIRD DAY"
Exodus 16:1--"the FIFTEENTH DAY of the SECOND month"
Exodus 16:5--"on the SIXTH DAY they shall prepare"
Exodus 16:22--"on the SIXTH DAY they gathered twice"
Exodus 16:26--"six DAYS ye shall gather it; but on the SEVENTH DAY"
Exodus 16:27--"on the SEVENTH DAY for to gather"
Exodus 16:29--"he gives you on the SIXTH DAY the bread of two DAYS . . .
let no man go out of his place on the SEVENTH DAY"
Exodus 16:30--"the people rested on the SEVENTH DAY"
There are too many OT example to even list them here. But consider these very clear supportive verses in Numbers 7:
12--"he that offered his offering the FIRST DAY"
18--"On the SECOND DAY Nethaneel"
24--"On the THIRD DAY Eliab"
30--"On the FOURTH DAY Elizur"
36--"On the FIFTH DAY Shelumiel"
42--"On the SIXTH DAY Eliasaph"
48--"On the SEVENTH DAY Elishama"
54--"On the EIGHTH DAY (offered) Gamaliel"
60--"On the NINTH DAY Abidan"
66--"On the TENTH DAY Ahiezer"
72--"On the ELEVENTH DAY Pagiel"
78--"On the TWELFTH DAY Ahira"
And Numbers chapter 29:
12--"the FIFTEENTH DAY of the SEVENTH month"
17--"And on the SECOND DAY"
20--"And on the THIRD DAY"
23--"And on the FOURTH DAY"
26--"And on the FIFTH DAY"
29--"And on the SIXTH DAY"
32--"And on the SEVENTH DAY"
35--"And on the EIGHTH DAY"
There is no indicate that the YOM of Genesis one is to be understood differently from the YOM of Numbers 7 or Numbers 29, etc.
If people wish to redefine the simple meaning of YOM, they must then redefine MORNING and EVENING, and SEASONS, and YEARS! None of these things make sense apart from a 24-hour day!
However, Genesis 1:30 does Not say will become. It says and it was so.Since it has Never been so, that every animal was a vegetarian, it should be obvious that this is Prophecy of the events which will occur at the end of the present 6th Day.
It was so, means it has never been (to you)? It means it was so (to Me).
Quote:
Based on your religious view and following your logic, that all animals were vegetarians during the “Pre-fall†of A&E, then, these future prophecies in Isaiah 11 must have been mistranslated and wrong, since it already happened – based on your religious opinion, correct? Look and read..
Could it be that the Prophecy of Isaiah is the earth returning to its paradisical state, as when God created it?
Quote:
So, tell us freedom, based on your understanding of Gen.1:29-30 being history already -- leopards and kids were sleeping together; and the lions were eating grass like the ox, before the “fall†(pre-fall) my simple question is, where did these kids come from leading the lions and fatlings before the making of Adam & Eve (Genesis 2)?
Your combining future events with creation events. In order to come up with a conclusion which is not how I believe.
You still have not answered my questions about why there needs to be billions of years added to the bible. Is not God all powerful? Does he need that much time? Explain to me why all that extra time is biblically necessary.
Dear mams,
God wrote the Scripture in his term and not base on our whims. If you need more wisdom and understanding, you need to pray for it. I don't answer questions as to "why" when pertaining to God's thought and righteousness. If do so, it will be mere speculation which is what I believe your religious view is, sorry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mams
And how exactly did you arrive at this startling conclusion? What am I misinterpreting? What I'm doing is reading Genesis 1 and looking at what it says. I'm reading the geneologies in Genesis that start with Adam and go all the way through Noah and on through Abraham. Where's all the missing years I'm supposed to readily see? There's no need for special interpretation of Genesis. It's not a vision. It's not allegory or metaphor. It's not a parable. It is written in historic, narrative prose. Without outside influence brought to bear upon the word of God, there's absolutely no reason to add millions or billions of years to the account of creation. And leaving Genesis speak for itself does not conflict with any other part of scripture. When people feel the need to tweak or twist or re-invent what Genesis clearly states, that's when it begins to conflict with scripture.
Oh, and BTW, empirical science does not contradict the bible. Scientific greats (Newton, Pasture and others) believed the bible and in the creator God of the bible and their science has held up just fine.
The evidence is in everything around us. God's Creation shouts of His Majesty and Sovereignty. EVERY true discovery agrees totally with His Holy Word, or the interpretation of a man, is in error.
It matters Not what I interpret. What matters is that which is written in Scripture, and in the Rocks, must agree, or the interpretation is wrong. When you find the One Truth, you will see that the One Truth agrees with every other discovered Truth. There is Not one Truth for Christians, and one for Scientists. When you find God's Truth, it agrees exactly with both. Scoffers of the last days, will Not believe this.....
Conclusion.......According to your scientist friends, the age of this earth is some 4.5B years... and I agree with them, since according to you, science does not contradict the Bible, therefore, it must be in complete accord with Scripture.
The evidence is in everything around us. God's Creation shouts of His Majesty and Sovereignty. EVERY true discovery agrees totally with His Holy Word, or the interpretation of a man, is in error.
Exactly right! Now if only we could get everyone thinking like you the world would be a better place...
Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from ALL his work which he had made. v 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from ALL his work which God CREATED and made.
When Jesus told Adam that he would surely die IN THE DAY he disobeyed. Adam did Not die physically, for he lived to be 930 years old as shown in Gen 5:5. Adam did not die Spiritually because God doesn't make mistakes and those who are born Spiritually are born Eternally.
Did Satan tell A&E the Truth, and Jesus lie to them? There is only One way the LORD can be right, and that is for Today to be the 6th Day. All mankind has lived and died on the present 6th Day. God will Not rest until His Creation is made Perfect.
The fact is Jesus also tells us that the Father and He are still working, Today, and most Christians believe that God, the Holy Ghost is continuing His work, Today. Look and read....... Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto (Greek- up to the present time), and I work. John 5:17
Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Conclusion... therefore, we are still on the 6th day of God's creation since He continue to create as documented above -- even to this minute.
That is not my assumption.
Creation days are a thousand earth days, which is one day to God. As Peter points out. It took 6000 yrs. for creation, then God rested for a thousand yrs., Just as He will rest again in the millenium time, when Satan is bound.
freedom
I wonder if each day was literally a thousand years though..or is it possible that they were more than that? Not a big issue..it would just be interesting to know though. There are some places in the bible where days are used to refer to ages.....could be that some periods of time took more earth years than others during the creation account.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.