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The traditional teaching among most of the Christian churches is that the entire bible is inspired by God. However, quite a number of contradictions and errors are apparent which apologists have been unsuccessful in explaining way.
In 1964, the Vatican II in its writing on scripture, Dei Verbum, included the following:
"In composing the sacred books, God chose men and while employed by Him they made use of their powers and abilities, so that with Him acting in them and through them, they, as true authors, consigned to writing everything and only those things which He wanted."
"Holy Mother Church has firmly and with absolute constancy held, and continues to hold, that the four Gospels just named, whose historical character the Church unhesitatingly asserts, faithfully hand on what Jesus Christ, while living among men, really did and taught for their eternal salvation until the day He was taken up into heaven."
This allows for exceptions. Thus can this be interpreted to mean that not everything in scripture is really inspired, but only those things necessary for salvation. So can everyone form their own opinion as to which parts of scripture are inspired and which are not?
1. No. Paul "claimed" to have been taken up to the third heaven. (And Paul admitted that he saw nothing wrong in lying).
"For if the truth of God hath more abounded by my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also adjudged a sinner?" – St. Paul, Romans 3.7.
If someone tells that they were taken up to heaven, will you believe them too?????
2. Please present your evidence (if any) that Peter confirmed Paul's writing as "gospel."
No, Paul did not admit that he saw nothing wrong in lying. I'm not going to take the time to explain what Paul meant by that statement because at the moment I am pretty fed up with this forum and I don't feel like wasting my time with people who aren't going to listen. But for those on this forum who are reading this thread and have read the comment in the post above and do want to know what Paul was talking about in Romans chapter 3, and in verse 7, then you can listen to the following class by Dr. Robert Dean of West Houston Bible Church.
Usually the New Revised Standard Version is used. It is a product of the World Council of Churches and used the oldest extant manuscripts in the original languages.
No, Paul did not admit that he saw nothing wrong in lying. I'm not going to take the time to explain what Paul meant by that statement because at the moment I am pretty fed up with this forum and I don't feel like wasting my time with people who aren't going to listen. But for those on this forum who are reading this thread and have read the comment in the post above and do want to know what Paul was talking about in Romans chapter 3, and in verse 7, then you can listen to the following class by Dr. Robert Dean of West Houston Bible Church.
...
(And Paul admitted that he saw nothing wrong in lying).
"For if the truth of God hath more abounded by my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also adjudged a sinner?" – St. Paul, Romans 3.7.
...
Let's put it in context, OK?
Romans 3
5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!
What you are attributing to Paul is in fact what "Someone might argue" not what Paul is claiming to be the case. A lot of strange claims about scriptures go away if one simply reads the context.
Romans 3
5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!
What you are attributing to Paul is in fact what "Someone might argue" not what Paul is claiming to be the case. A lot of strange claims about scriptures go away if one simply reads the context.
Exactly! Paul was presenting the absurd, to make his point.
No, Paul did not admit that he saw nothing wrong in lying. I'm not going to take the time to explain what Paul meant by that statement because at the moment I am pretty fed up with this forum and I don't feel like wasting my time with people who aren't going to listen. But for those on this forum who are reading this thread and have read the comment in the post above and do want to know what Paul was talking about in Romans chapter 3, and in verse 7, then you can listen to the following class by Dr. Robert Dean of West Houston Bible Church.
If you cannot refute the evidence, indeed you would be wise to withdraw from this thread.
Merely name dropping of the name of some author without presenting what he said is hardly proof of anything.
As I have said, I'm not about to waste my time on this thread. I've simply given people the opportunity to listen to a highly trained pastor/teacher explain the apostle Paul's statement in Romans 3:7. There will be no further comments from me after this post.
You have been refuted by a pastor who actually knows what he is talking about as opposed to yourself who doesn't know straight up from straight down and has no idea at all what Paul was talking about. As I assumed, you didn't even bother to listen to the class. This is an hour long class on Romans 3:1-12 which is presented in both audio and video format.
Romans 3
5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!
What you are attributing to Paul is in fact what "Someone might argue" not what Paul is claiming to be the case. A lot of strange claims about scriptures go away if one simply reads the context.
On the contrary, their argument is correct about Paul. The New Testament abundantly evidences Paul's willingness to lie and change his story.
"And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars." Revelation 2:2
Paul claimed to be an apostle. He was never an apostle or made a replacement apostle. He didn't meet the requirement.
The requirement for an apostle is found in Acts 1:21- 22 "So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us to his resurrection.” Not Paul!
Paul was charged by the Jews for teaching deviating from Mosaic Law. But at his trial he lied claiming:
But when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, "Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged!" And when he had said this, a dissension arose between the Pharisees and the Sadducees; and the assembly was divided.
"The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. (Acts 9:7)
or
Now those who were with me saw the light, but did not hear the voice of the one who was speaking to me. (Acts 22:9)
And Paul plays let's pretend as he admits in (I Corinthians. 9:19-25).:
"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, that I might win the more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law – though not being myself under the law – that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law – not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ – that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."
So Paul proves that: “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” He just doesn't want to be criticized!
Last edited by Aristotle's Child; 11-30-2014 at 01:25 PM..
Reason: addition
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