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Old 12-09-2014, 09:00 AM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,270,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Pharoah hardened his own heart by the things that God exposed him to. You see God knew what would harden Pharoah's heart so if God wouldn't have exposed Pharoah to the things that would have hardened his heart then his heart wouldn't have been hardened. This is why both are true that God and Pharoah hardened Pharoah's heart.

That is why both statements are found in our beautiful bible:

Exo_8:32 And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

Exo_9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.
Not true, why would the writer even change who was doing the hardening unless he was trying to show us something ?.
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,027,297 times
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By default man is evil. God has no need to tempt us because we are tempted by our own lusts:

Jas_1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

God knew that man would be tempted of his own lusts when God made man subject to vanity (God is responsible).

Those that hold the doctrine of the Pelagians will not believe such. For as Augustine said of them:

"And thus the Pelagians affirm that they actually have God Himself, not from God, but from their own selves!"
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:02 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,958,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I think half the problem is, to them universal reconciliation cannot work if God is not sovereign in the way they translate it. The thing is UR is not the whole revelation of God, it is the road back to the Father.
If the Scriptures reveal to us God's sovereignty and reveals He will save all, it must be the two work together to accomplish that which He declared from the beginning.

Man is not sovereign.
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,027,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Your translation is incorrect. The proper word is "gloried." "Harden" does not use the same Hebrew word as "gloried."

God hardened Pharaoh's heart.
Pharaoh gloried in his heart.

Two very different things.
Which word in which verse?
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:04 AM
 
Location: USA
17,161 posts, read 11,382,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I think half the problem is, to them universal reconciliation cannot work if God is not sovereign in the way they translate it. The thing is UR is not the whole revelation of God, it is the road back to the Father.
I understand.
It's also their way of dealing with "the problem of evil", by saying there is no problem with evil, that's what God wants.
We're all just trying to make sense of our reality. But they've got a long row to hoe to explain how the God who is light and love and good causing people to walk in darkness and unlove and evil, makes sense.
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Old 12-09-2014, 11:41 AM
 
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The same God Who is love and light will do this to humanity:

Rev_17:17 for God imparts to their hearts to form His opinion,
and to form one opinion, and to give their kingdom to the wild beast,
until the words of God shall be accomplished."

Now why would God put in into their hearts to form His opinion and to form one opinion to give their kingdom to the wild beast? Whatever happened to sweet baby Jesus?
I'll tell you why. Because they must learn Who ultimately is in control and that He is working all together for good. That's why.

2Th 2:11 And therefore God will be
sending them an operation of deception,
for them to believe the falsehood,

Now why would God deceive all those people so that they believe the falsehood?
He doesn't do it just to do it. He doesn't just throw dice and maybe He will or will not do it.
No, He will do it because that is what they need to experience what He needs them to experience.

Last edited by Eusebius; 12-09-2014 at 12:12 PM..
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Old 12-09-2014, 11:45 AM
 
7,723 posts, read 12,612,989 times
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This is what I love about God. He holds everyone accountable regardless of what you do or don't believe. God revealed to me that accepting Jesus Christ as your savior is a form of taking responsibility for your life. He paid the price with his life so that we could be saved. Recognizing that universal truth and receiving his blood is taking ownership for your life.
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:08 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,958,660 times
Reputation: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Which word in which verse?
In Ex.7:3 aqshe is "harden" as in "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."
Septuagint has "ebarune"

In 8:32 "uikbd" is "gloried" as in "Yet Pharaoh gloried in his heart,
Septuagint has "skleruno"

Last edited by Eusebius; 12-09-2014 at 12:33 PM..
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,027,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
This is what I love about God. He holds everyone accountable regardless of what you do or don't believe. God revealed to me that accepting Jesus Christ as your savior is a form of taking responsibility for your life. He paid the price with his life so that we could be saved. Recognizing that universal truth and receiving his blood is taking ownership for your life.
But if your a Christian you are dead. He lives His life through you at that point. It is His life taking ownership of us.
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,027,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
In Ex.7:3 aqshe is "harden" as in "I will harden Pharaoh's heart."

In 8:32 "uikbd" is "gloried" as in "Yet Pharaoh gloried in his heart,
So wouldn't that mean that the Lord "gloried" Pharoah's heart here:

Exo 10:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

For it the same word. Surely it means to have made Pharoah heart weighty as in tipping a scale.
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