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Joh_9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
So who can read this verse above and not see that the Jews believed in original sin. These Jews asked this becaues they knew of the understanding that one would be born with the sin of their father. Jesus didn't response and say that is nonsense. He simply responded and said the blindness is not do the sin that the man had been born with.
Worse than your Catholic spew as original reading is your plucking one verse out of the Bible and saying it proves something. Read the next verse.
Verse 4 tells us that the blind man could not work for he was in perpetual night. And, the day would come when "night" would surround every man and Jesus must work in the "light" before that time.
I hope those that believe in Original Sin are seeing how I posted verses that nobody here is able to refute.
They have been refuted--with enough clarity to eliminate certainty about the doctrine. You are unable to see it because of the dogma that you cling to. It's not worth wasting another post to ask you to explain why God wouldn't kill Moses instead of the Israelites that built the golden calf--even though Moses as a man of faith pleaded for God to take him instead of them.
"The soul that sins shall die." That doesn't quite fit with "the soul that is born shall die." Confusing physical death with spiritual death is ludicrous.
The tree that lives now, dies because Adam sinned? Give me a break!!
christians with a different understanding of original sin
Quote:
In Eastern Orthodoxy, God created man perfect with free will and gave man a direction to follow. Man (Adam) and Woman (Eve)chose rather to disobey God by eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, thus changing the "perfect" mode of existence of Man to the flawed or "fallen" mode of existence of Man. This fallen nature and all that has come from it is a result of "original sin." All humanity participates in the sin of Adam because like him, they are human and follow in his ways. The union of humanity with divinity in Jesus Christ restored, in the Person of Christ, the mode of existence of humanity, so that those who are incorporated in him may participate in this renewal of the perfect mode of existence, be saved from sin and death, and be united to God in deification. Original sin is cleansed in humans through baptism or, in the case of the Theotokos, the moment Christ took form within her.
This view differs from the Roman Catholic doctrine of original sin, the legacy of Latin father Augustine of Hippo, in that Man is not seen as inherently guilty of the sin committed by Adam, conceived as the federal head and legal representative of the human race. According to the Orthodox, humanity inherited the consequences of that sin, not the guilt. The difference stems from Augustine's interpretation of a Latin translation of Romans 5:12 to mean that through Adam all men sinned, whereas the Orthodox reading in Greek interpret it as meaning that all of humanity sins as part of the inheritance of flawed nature from Adam. The Orthodox Church does not teach that all are born guilty and deserving of damnation, and Protestant doctrines such as predestination which are derived from the Augustinian theory of original sin and are especially prominent in the Lutheran and Calvinist traditions, are not a part of Orthodox belief.
In the book Ancestral Sin, John S. Romanides addresses the concept of original sin, which he understands as an inheritance of ancestral sin from previous generations. Romanides asserts that original sin (understood as innate guilt) is not an apostolic doctrine of the Church nor cohesive with the Eastern Orthodox faith, but rather an unfortunate innovation of later church fathers such as Augustine. In the realm of ascetics it is by choice, not birth, that one takes on the sins of the world.
Wikipedia
This actually sounds much more believable than the "devil made me do it" (because sin was born innately into my soul) theory. The latter is a method of avoiding responsibility for poor spiritual choices--which is exactly what Adam and Eve did--make poor choices. Because we are human like them (they represent humanity), we have choices also. Unfortunately our choices are no better than theirs---but in every case we had the free will to make those choices.
Faith in our salvation from sin and death through Jesus Christ our Lord. Jesus died because He took our sins upon Himself.
Forgot to add - No Jesus was not under the condemnation because He was born of the virgin therefore He was not of Adam's seed but of the seed of the Father in Heaven.
Jesus was born in the likeness of sinful flesh(Rom 8:3). The Lord could have wilfully sinned, but He lived a sinless life, fulfilling the law which we ourselves can not do. The devil was tempting the Lord throughout (Matt 4). Jesus earthly state was as the son of man(Luke6:5). His deity is as The Son of God(John 1:49).
The virgin birth of Mary was not of the seed of the Father but of the seed of David(Rom1:3).He was of adams seed and called the last adam(1Cor15:45). He was still God(1Tim 3:16), and took on and conquered sin and death. Praise the Lord Jesus!
Jesus now sits on the right hand of the Father as the Son of God(Matt 26:64).
Verse 4 tells us that the blind man could not work for he was in perpetual night. And, the day would come when "night" would surround every man and Jesus must work in the "light" before that time.
The man was a sinner. He was born with sin. The Jews knew it as evidence by the questioning. Jesus response was an answer to the blindness - not the original sin.
They have been refuted--with enough clarity to eliminate certainty about the doctrine. You are unable to see it because of the dogma that you cling to. It's not worth wasting another post to ask you to explain why God wouldn't kill Moses instead of the Israelites that built the golden calf--even though Moses as a man of faith pleaded for God to take him instead of them.
"The soul that sins shall die." That doesn't quite fit with "the soul that is born shall die." Confusing physical death with spiritual death is ludicrous.
The tree that lives now, dies because Adam sinned? Give me a break!!
This actually sounds much more believable than the "devil made me do it" (because sin was born innately into my soul) theory. The latter is a method of avoiding responsibility for poor spiritual choices--which is exactly what Adam and Eve did--make poor choices. Because we are human like them (they represent humanity), we have choices also. Unfortunately our choices are no better than theirs---but in every case we had the free will to make those choices.
Original Sin is FACT - not theory.
Lam 5:7 Our fathers sinned, and are not: we have borne their iniquities.
Well I'm trying to join the popular movement. As you recall neither did Christ. But here is what you need to explain
Rom_5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Explain how the law entered so that offence might abound. Abound over what?
You simply can't pluck one verse out of the whole and expect it say what you want. If you read all of Rom 5 and everything up to that, it makes sense.
We are told earlier that if there is no law, one cannot be held accountable for sin. Once there was law, sin abounded (existed in great numbers) because there were laws to break. Sin grew as the laws were broken. As the laws were broken, grace was there and abounded (existed in great numbers) more than sin. God's love, compassion, and ability to forgive is greater and more vast than sins.
You simply can't pluck one verse out of the whole and expect it say what you want. If you read all of Rom 5 and everything up to that, it makes sense.
We are told earlier that if there is no law, one cannot be held accountable for sin. Once there was law, sin abounded (existed in great numbers) because there were laws to break. Sin grew as the laws were broken. As the laws were broken, grace was there and abounded (existed in great numbers) more than sin. God's love, compassion, and ability to forgive is greater and more vast than sins.
When Paul speaks about being no law he is talking about the age of accountability. God will not send a child to Hell. As soon as a person knows right from wrong then they are put under the law and will be judged by the law(Rom 2:12). If you have put your faith in Jesus Christ alone then you are under grace(Rom 6:15).
You simply can't pluck one verse out of the whole and expect it say what you want. If you read all of Rom 5 and everything up to that, it makes sense.
We are told earlier that if there is no law, one cannot be held accountable for sin. Once there was law, sin abounded (existed in great numbers) because there were laws to break. Sin grew as the laws were broken. As the laws were broken, grace was there and abounded (existed in great numbers) more than sin. God's love, compassion, and ability to forgive is greater and more vast than sins.
No it does not say that once there was the law sin abounded. It said that the law enter that the offence should abound. Your not answer to what that offence was:
Rom_5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
This means that the OFFENCE preceded the law. So what is that Offence and where did it come from? Now if everyone didn't have THAT OFFENCE then the Grace did not much MORE ABOUND to ALL of those that received it.
You see that OFFENCE is the sin of ADAM.
Now if you don't want to answer that then focus on this:
Rom 5:15 But, not as the offence so also is the free gift; for if by the offence of the one the many did die, much more did the grace of God, and the free gift in grace of the one man Jesus Christ, abound to the many;
What is the one offence by one man that has caused many to die? Who is that man and what is that offence?
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christians with a different understanding of original sin
