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Wrong. I interpret them differently using the TRUE NATURE of God revealed by Christ.
OK, what is Matthew 24 & 25 about, in a nutshell?
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
YOU are the inconsistent one using the primitive barbaric beliefs about the nature of God to interpret the verses. Once you know from Christ's unambiguous example that God IS agape love . . . NOTHING that is incompatible with agape love can EVER be the truth. It MUST have been corrupted by primitive ignorance and superstition. To be consistent EVERYTHING has to be compatible with the Spirit of agape love who IS God, period. It is an absolute and unalterable standard of truth as revealed and demonstrated unambiguously by Christ.
Our ancestors did NOT test the Spirit of anything against the Spirit of agape love because they had their traditions and barbaric beliefs about God from the OT. That is why they easily accepted false teachings that are completely inconsistent with the nature of God revealed by Christ . . . claiming it is some kind of mystery because God does not change. God is the same but our ignorant ancestors' beliefs about Him from the OT were wrong. That is what Christ came to change and He was crucified for it.
Says who? What scripture? Where did Jesus tell us that?
Wrong. I interpret them differently using the TRUE NATURE of God revealed by Christ. YOU are the inconsistent one using the primitive barbaric beliefs about the nature of God to interpret the verses. Once you know from Christ's unambiguous example that God IS agape love . . . NOTHING that is incompatible with agape love can EVER be the truth. It MUST have been corrupted by primitive ignorance and superstition. To be consistent EVERYTHING has to be compatible with the Spirit of agape love who IS God, period. It is an absolute and unalterable standard of truth as revealed and demonstrated unambiguously by Christ.
Our ancestors did NOT test the Spirit of anything against the Spirit of agape love because they had their traditions and barbaric beliefs about God from the OT. That is why they easily accepted false teachings that are completely inconsistent with the nature of God revealed by Christ . . . claiming it is some kind of mystery because God does not change. God is the same but our ignorant ancestors' beliefs about Him from the OT were wrong. That is what Christ came to change and He was crucified for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
OK, what is Matthew 24 & 25 about, in a nutshell?
Says who? What scripture? Where did Jesus tell us that?
If you cannot draw the appropriate conclusions from the fact that 1 John 4:8 that God IS agape love . . . you will never see it, jimmie. Everything proceeds from that premise about the true nature of God revealed and DEMONSTRATED unambiguously by Christ. All your interpretations proceed from the wrong premise about the true nature of God from the OT.
If you cannot draw the appropriate conclusions from the fact that 1 John 4:8 that God IS agape love . . . you will never see it, jimmie. Everything proceeds from that premise about the true nature of God revealed and DEMONSTRATED unambiguously by Christ. All your interpretations proceed from the wrong premise about the true nature of God from the OT.
Cop out. You don't interpret those passages differently. If you did, you could tell me what they mean. Instead you dismiss them.
If you cannot draw the appropriate conclusions from the fact that 1 John 4:8 that God IS agape love . . . you will never see it, jimmie. Everything proceeds from that premise about the true nature of God revealed and DEMONSTRATED unambiguously by Christ. All your interpretations proceed from the wrong premise about the true nature of God from the OT.
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Originally Posted by jimmiej
Cop out. You don't interpret those passages differently. If you did, you could tell me what they mean. Instead you dismiss them.
Try to be reasonable, jimmie. That is two full chapters of verses and you expect me to provide some summary answer???? Much of what is in Matt 24 has a Preterist interpretation because of the necessity of happening before that generation passed. There is just too much symbolism and hyperbole in both chapters to summarize.
I have noticed that there are some Christians who get every answer to every question from the Bible. If the Bible does not mention something then they can't answer the question. Why not think for yourself once in a while? Even if they might think otherwise, they will ignore their own thoughts because of what is in the Bible.
I watched a video the other day of the pastor who said that gay people should be killed. He was on some news show and the interviewer kept asking the pastor if the thinks all gays should be killed, and all the pastor could say is "well, in the bible..." He could not answer what he thinks, he can only answer what he thinks because of what is in the Bible. I find this very odd to say the least.
It seems like if the Bible said that grass is purple some of these people would say that grass must be purple while staring at a green lawn.
Am I wrong in my observations? If not, then why do certain people choose to sometimes even ignore their own thoughts and feelings and would rather listen to the Bible that was written by men with their own thoughts and feelings.
Please don't begin your answer with 'well, in the Bible..." or "the Bible tells us...". haha! Everything does not need to be answered with some Bible passage.
Excuse me, toots, but I'll respond the way I want to.
Beyond that, what I find odd is your apparent obsession with "certain people" who look to the Bible for direction in the way that pastor supposedly did. Or "some" people who you claimmight say the grass is purple if that were in the Bible. Huh?
It all sounds like someone needs some serious couch time.
Not only are some Christians incapable of thinking for themselves, they quote "Lean not on your own understanding" to show why it's wrong to actually think for oneself.
It is impossible to argue that the Bible is a unified whole, inerrant in all its parts, inspired by God in every way. It cant' be that. There are too many divergences, discrepancies, contradictions; too many alternative ways of looking at the same issue, alternatives that often are at odds with one another (just read the multitude of posts on any subject on these threads). The bible is NOT a unity, it is a massive plurality. God did not "write" the Bible, people did.
Were they inspired? Of course, in the same way some pastors are inspired in their pulpits or singers rendering a beautiful gospel song. They wrote works that can inspire us to think great and important thoughts and to do great and important deeds, to look introspectively at how we might become more of what God wants us to be.
But they were not inspired in the sense that God somehow whispered in their ear to write what they wrote. Even claiming that is so makes God look foolish. Instead I see the foolish as those who have such thoughts.
There is no view in the Bible that can be lifted from its original context, plopped down into a different concept, like 21st century America, and be expected to communicate inerrant revelation. But because there are so many different messages from the Bible--some from the exact same verses of scripture-- a student of scripture can evaluate the appropriateness of each message and see what relevance it may have for life in the present. Some messages will be more appropriate for certain contexts than others. And readers of the Bible should not be afraid to proclaim one message instead of another.
Case in point: Jesus taught us as relates to children: "Suffer the little children to come unto me," and that provides a more useful spiritual guide than Psalm 137, "Blessed is he who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rocks." I'm not sure ANY fundamentalist who SWEARS ON HIS LIFE that the Bible is inerrant and infallible stands up and recommends that we smash the children of unbelievers against the rocks. Or are there? But if you do not recommend that, then we aren't talking about following ALL the Bible, just those that provide a more useful spiritual guide.
Everything written in the Bible was written in a different world and a different context. The very idea that "Jesus is coming back" is built on the idea that above us, over the clouds, is a space where God lives, and that Jesus has gone up there to live with God. And that one day Jesus will ascend from those clouds--artists have depicted that ancient view on more than one occasion.
But we don't see that as a place for "heaven" now. Above the clouds is more atmosphere and beyond that is space, and further still are billions of stars---in our galaxy alone. The idea of Jesus coming back "down" assumes there is an "up!" We need a modern idiom to reflect what the return of Jesus might mean. I'm not suggesting one, I'm simply pointing out that a 2000 year old idiom doesn't really serve us well today.
Some people claim it is dangerous to "pick and choose" from the Bible. But we already do that as proved by the case in point of "suffer the little children to come unto me." Everything we see and hear, and certainly read, we need to evaluate in light of an experiential experience with the Son of God, not in light of what something says, someone says, or even that our eyes see---that includes the Bible, Shakespeare, Ghandi, Desmond Tutu, or the Dali Lama.
Is the Bible important? Of course!! It is the most important book in Western civilization. It is the most widely purchased, the most thoroughly studied, the most highly revered----AND THE MOST COMPLETELY MISUNDERSTOOD BOOK---EVER!!!! Why wouldn't all of us want to study it?
Last edited by Wardendresden; 02-25-2015 at 06:34 PM..
Reason: spelling
I have noticed that there are some Christians who get every answer to every question from the Bible. If the Bible does not mention something then they can't answer the question. Why not think for yourself once in a while? Even if they might think otherwise, they will ignore their own thoughts because of what is in the Bible.
I watched a video the other day of the pastor who said that gay people should be killed. He was on some news show and the interviewer kept asking the pastor if the thinks all gays should be killed, and all the pastor could say is "well, in the bible..." He could not answer what he thinks, he can only answer what he thinks because of what is in the Bible. I find this very odd to say the least.
It seems like if the Bible said that grass is purple some of these people would say that grass must be purple while staring at a green lawn.
Am I wrong in my observations? If not, then why do certain people choose to sometimes even ignore their own thoughts and feelings and would rather listen to the Bible that was written by men with their own thoughts and feelings.
Please don't begin your answer with 'well, in the Bible..." or "the Bible tells us...". haha! Everything does not need to be answered with some Bible passage.
You are correct for the Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christians who believe in a 100% literal inerrant Bible . . . not all Christians.
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Originally Posted by revrandy
Hrm, I would say she is bang-on in her interpretation. For far too many fundamentalists if the bible doesn't have the answer, then there is no answer. The concept of thinking for oneself is tossed aside.
Actually it is deliberately disdained . . . as is using the accumulated knowledge of the world. They reject what they call the "wisdom of man" and assert that there is NO private interpretation possible.
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Originally Posted by Fiyero
Not only are some Christians incapable of thinking for themselves, they quote "Lean not on your own understanding" to show why it's wrong to actually think for oneself.
Amen, Flyero.
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Originally Posted by perry335654
So you are saying Christians are stupid?
They would say they are professing their faith in God by retaining the ancient ignorance of our ancestors, rejecting the wisdom of man and refusing any private interpretations.
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Originally Posted by Jerwade
Few are those who see with their own eyes; and feel with their own hearts.
Albert Einstein
Amen. Jerwade..
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy
Stupid no, naive absolutely. Also you can't use the term Christian here as it is to broad. Per the OP, I am referring to fundamentalist / evangelical Christians.
Agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton
If you are correct in your assumption, then you are correct! (But, what then are men submitting to, if not the thoughts of men, when human opinion is regarded as "higher truth."
Neither scripture or Christians subscribe to human philosophies over scripture--- for very good reason! The Bible is the inspired Word of God ... and only human opinion (not facts) say otherwise.
Actually to be perfectly honest . . . only human opinion (not facts) say it IS the inspired Word of God.
Quote:
I also believe that many people submit to the wrong interpretation of the written word! And, in that mis-understanding, do the opposite of what God wants them to do. -- But, at least with scripture, one has a 'Truth Standard' against which to evaluate the interpretation. Without a common truth standard, there is no standard of truth.
But the truth standard is NOT the Bible . . . it is Christ! Christ abides with us as the Comforter to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts . . . not what men have "written in ink." The Spirit of agape love is the absolute unwavering standard of truth because God IS Spirit and God IS agape love.
Try to be reasonable, jimmie. That is two full chapters of verses and you expect me to provide some summary answer???? Much of what is in Matt 24 has a Preterist interpretation because of the necessity of happening before that generation passed. There is just too much symbolism and hyperbole in both chapters to summarize.
I won't argue that, but the fact is, you completly dismiss these passages, because they speak of judgment.
The Bible is the spiritual guide that is passing down a long long time ago. The Book is oddly from 'no where'. What I meant from 'no where', which means from a very unlikely place and unlikely nation Israel. By all mathmatical caculations, the Book couldn't survive throughout the courses of the history. But surprisingly, it does. And whoever practicing it, it became a power.
Powers or not, it delievered the final message to declare why the Book exsits. For God so loves the world, HE wants you to live. Speaking of the other religions throughout the world: they tell there were many many Armageddons before. But none of them ever declared this will - to let you live on.
Of course, in my lowly opinion, diversities would be fine. What happens if you go out for lunch, but you find there are only Subway chain stores to choose? But one thing that one should conclue of the Bible is to worship GOD. And thus was and shall be is concluded. Jesus says GOD is love, and LOVE works no ill. So is it in your mind to add more?
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You don't interpret those passages differently. If you did, you could tell me what they mean. Instead you dismiss them.
Huh?
