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DRob... if you don't believe that there are two views of God in the bible, then I don't honestly see how we CAN have a discussion at this point? Unless we look at it piece by piece.
I'll start with this:
You believe God is JEALOUS?
Think of what you are saying.
You are saying this about the CREATOR of the universe.
And He's Jealous.
I believe what's in the Bible as it is written... in the context with which it's written.
Exodus 34:10 - Then God said, ...
The Lord is speaking here. If you don't believe that - how can there be any discussion on the Lord saying that He is jealous?
God designed and created the earth. Yet, many people say He didn't - and instead credit some other force, or just a result some simple random event. God is supposed to be OK with that? You and I would be the same way. If either one of us created a product - and someone else got the credit, fame and glory - wouldn't you be upset and jealous over the time and effort you spent creating that product?
How do you think God should feel and react to someone or something else getting the glory He deserves?
And you are wrong. I'm not "inserting" anything. I am acknowledging what is ALREADY THERE.
Truth remains. It is just "revealed" when the time is right.
Your "all or nothing" view is what has so many people in the dark.
Oil and Water.
God is not LOVE AND HATE.
God is not light AND darkness.
Calling evil good, and good evil??
All or nothing.
The bible is not an instruction guide. The bible is not the key to wisdom.
LOVE is the key to wisdom. God IS Love.
You read the black letters in the bible and totally, completely miss the white space in between.
It is laziness, yes laziness, that wants a simple way out, a "book to read". Do the work yourself and learn to discern for yourself what is OF God and what most definitely is NOT.
God is responsible for the content. He tells us who He is. You can choose to make up your own definition of Him at your own peril.
My "all or nothing" view has people in the dark... ? Is it really too much for you to believe in the entirety of a book or not?
God does hate sin. God does hate divorce. He is able to hate - and it's not evil.
A loving human dad communicates with his children.
A loving human dad forgives his childrens' little mistakes even if they dont ask for his forgiveness.
A loving human dad corrects his children.
A loving human dad would not condemn his children for their ignorant little mistakes.
A loving human dad raises his children to be successfully independent.
Those are qualities not seen in the Father God of Christianity who behaves rather like a short tempered absentee father paying child support who doesnt want his kids to ever grow up.
Well, these qualities definitely describe the God I believe in as a Christian.
You have elevated the "precepts and doctrines of men" into Holy Writ. Nowhere does Jesus tell us to treat the scriptures as inerrant or infallible . . . ONLY that they testify of Him to establish His bona fides and to provide instruction that is USEFUL (profitable). Nowhere does He say (or even hint) that everything written about Him AFTER the OT is inerrant or infallible . . . because it didn't even exist when He was with us in body. Now that He is with us in Spirit as the Comforter within our consciousness . . . we have no need for the words "written in ink" and stone under the Old Covenant. We have the truth God has "written in our hearts" in agape love under the New Covenant. Christ does not need to meet my standards. He set them pretty high Himself by His life, teachings and especially His death. He epitomizes agape love for us all . . . even His torturers and murderers. "No greater love . . ." If YOU cannot unambiguously use the Spirit of agape love to test the Spirit of anything . . . that is not my fault. It IS a completely unambiguous standard. It is definitely NOT just my personal opinion. It is absolute!
You do know that Jesus often quoted and referenced the material in the OT... ? Jesus knew all - yet He still quoted what was written from the OT.
Matthew 4:3-11
And the tempter came and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread." 4 But He answered and said, "It is written, `MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.' " 5 Then the devil took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, `HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU'; and `ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.' " 7 Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, `YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.' " 8 Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; 9 and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me." 10 Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, `YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.' " 11 Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.
Luke 4:17-21
And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written, 18 "THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR. HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED, 19 TO PROCLAIM THE FAVORABLE YEAR OF THE LORD." 20 And He closed the book, gave it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on Him.
---------------------------------------
You say we do not need the words in the OT... yet...
Romans 15:4 - For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
---------------------------------------
MysticPHD - Your problem is not with me. Your problem is you continually lift up what makes sense to you and reject what God supplied in the Scriptures. You choose to accept a fictional "Spirit of agape love" as your god and guide.
You have elevated the "precepts and doctrines of men" into Holy Writ. Nowhere does Jesus tell us to treat the scriptures as inerrant or infallible . . . ONLY that they testify of Him to establish His bona fides and to provide instruction that is USEFUL (profitable). Nowhere does He say (or even hint) that everything written about Him AFTER the OT is inerrant or infallible . . . because it didn't even exist when He was with us in body. Now that He is with us in Spirit as the Comforter within our consciousness . . . we have no need for the words "written in ink" and stone under the Old Covenant. We have the truth God has "written in our hearts" in agape love under the New Covenant. Christ does not need to meet my standards. He set them pretty high Himself by His life, teachings and especially His death. He epitomizes agape love for us all . . . even His torturers and murderers. "No greater love . . ." If YOU cannot unambiguously use the Spirit of agape love to test the Spirit of anything . . . that is not my fault. It IS a completely unambiguous standard. It is definitely NOT just my personal opinion. It is absolute!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
You do know that Jesus often quoted and referenced the material in the OT... ? Jesus knew all - yet He still quoted what was written from the OT.
You say we do not need the words in the OT... yet... Romans 15:4 - For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
MysticPHD - Your problem is not with me. Your problem is you continually lift up what makes sense to you and reject what God supplied in the Scriptures. You choose to accept a fictional "Spirit of agape love" as your god and guide.
You refuse to actually listen to what I say and then lie about my views using what you think I said. I never said we do not need the OT. I have always said we need to reinterpret it using the "mind of Christ" and the Spirit of agape love because our ignorant ancient ancestors GOT IT WRONG about God. Jesus quoted the OT to ESTABLISH His bona fides. To prove WHO He was because they testify of Him. He wanted them to come to Him to know the Father . . . NOT the words "written in ink" and stone. ALL Christians are supposed to rely on Christ who abides with us as the Living Word of God. God has "written in our hearts" and we have the Comforter to lead us to the truth that is there. Having hope from the scriptures refers to the testimonies and validations of Christ that they contain . . . so we can have faith that what Jesus revealed about the TRUE NATURE of our Father is truth.The Spirit of agape love IS God . . . NOT a fiction. God IS Spirit and God IS agape love. Get a clue.
A loving human dad communicates with his children.
A loving human dad forgives his childrens' little mistakes even if they dont ask for his forgiveness.
A loving human dad corrects his children.
A loving human dad would not condemn his children for their ignorant little mistakes.
A loving human dad raises his children to be successfully independent.
Those are qualities not seen in the Father God of Christianity who behaves rather like a short tempered absentee father paying child support who doesnt want his kids to ever grow up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSD610
<snip>
Also, you are wrong, a loving human Dad can do the opposite of what you have stated above but not all of the time.
And yet, mainstream Christianity teaches that God will do the opposite of those things for ETERNITY.
I believe what's in the Bible as it is written... in the context with which it's written.
Exodus 34:10 - Then God said, ...
The Lord is speaking here. If you don't believe that - how can there be any discussion on the Lord saying that He is jealous?
God designed and created the earth. Yet, many people say He didn't - and instead credit some other force, or just a result some simple random event. God is supposed to be OK with that? You and I would be the same way. If either one of us created a product - and someone else got the credit, fame and glory - wouldn't you be upset and jealous over the time and effort you spent creating that product?
How do you think God should feel and react to someone or something else getting the glory He deserves?
You honestly think that God is upset and jealous and is basically throwing temper tantrums because John Smith in Indiana (or whoever else) thinks to himself "you know what, I don't really believe there is a God." So God is just stamping His foot and frowning and saying "But there is a God! I am God! I made all of this stuff. I made the trees!" *stamp, stamp* *Frown* "I created the lakes and snails and DNA and dogs and roses." "Grr. Stupid John Smith in Indiana!"
I would think that God being... GOD... if He saw John Smith in Indiana thinking those things, He would probably smile to Himself (so to speak) knowing that one day John Smith will come face to face with His creator and John Smith will no longer think there is no God. John Smith will be overwhelmed by LOVE and he will KNOW. I think God (who IS love) has patience, and kindness and gentleness and long-suffering towards each of us. He would see John Smith in Indiana as what he is, which is a child of God. A child, questioning and trying to understand the world around him. Which is what we are ALL meant to do!
We are supposed to question. God is pleased when we do. And I believe God feels nothing really, one way or another if someone says "There is no God." It's like if someone came up to you and said "You don't really love your child." You would just be: um, yeah ok whatever dude. Because you know the truth. What do you care what someone thinks? They are mistaken. They are temporarily ignorant. Not knowing the truth.
You honestly think that God is upset and jealous and is basically throwing temper tantrums because John Smith in Indiana (or whoever else) thinks to himself "you know what, I don't really believe there is a God." So God is just stamping His foot and frowning and saying "But there is a God! I am God! I made all of this stuff. I made the trees!" *stamp, stamp* *Frown* "I created the lakes and snails and DNA and dogs and roses." "Grr. Stupid John Smith in Indiana!"
I would think that God being... GOD... if He saw John Smith in Indiana thinking those things, He would probably smile to Himself (so to speak) knowing that one day John Smith will come face to face with His creator and John Smith will no longer think there is no God. John Smith will be overwhelmed by LOVE and he will KNOW. I think God (who IS love) has patience, and kindness and gentleness and long-suffering towards each of us. He would see John Smith in Indiana as what he is, which is a child of God. A child, questioning and trying to understand the world around him. Which is what we are ALL meant to do!
We are supposed to question. God is pleased when we do. And I believe God feels nothing really, one way or another if someone says "There is no God." It's like if someone came up to you and said "You don't really love your child." You would just be: um, yeah ok whatever dude. Because you know the truth. What do you care what someone thinks? They are mistaken. They are temporarily ignorant. Not knowing the truth.
[quote=.sparrow.;37770754]And you are wrong. I'm not "inserting" anything. I am acknowledging what is ALREADY THERE.
Truth remains. It is just "revealed" when the time is right.
Your "all or nothing" view is what has so many people in the dark.
Oil and Water.
God is not LOVE AND HATE.
God is not light AND darkness.
Calling evil good, and good evil??
All or nothing.
The bible is not an instruction guide. The bible is not the key to wisdom.
LOVE is the key to wisdom. God IS Love.
You read the black letters in the bible and totally, completely miss the white space in between.
It is laziness, yes laziness, that wants a simple way out, a "book to read". Do the
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