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Old 05-27-2015, 07:25 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
1,422 posts, read 950,635 times
Reputation: 197

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Did it ever occur to you that G-d was speaking to His Angels and not some other entity within a Trinity?...
Oh yes the Angels!

Actually yes, that has been a thought I have thinked.

However, as the story goes, it is not likely as G()D always seemed to speak of the Angels as messengers and being created to do things for him.

This is not the impression given in relation to the phrase 'He has become like US, knowing good and evil" - why would G()D turn to his servants and make a statement which so obviously has them on the same level as He?

One answer is that anyone who is 'of G()D' is equal to G()D in the eyes of G()D.

But no, I am sure that if it had been the Angels G()D was talking to, the verse would have said "And G()D said to his angels, 'He has become like US, knowing good and evil'"

22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

You see? Angels are mentioned down further (as cherubim).

Another interesting thing about this story is that G()D did not want humans to be like him in one particular way...

This is to say that the creator purportedly did not want the human creation to be like Him even that the creation was created in his image.

That speaks against your idea that G()D was speaking to the ANGELS because the angels are also creations of G()D and thus not 'like G()D'.

The story implies that G()D was talking to equals - to brethren. As a family species this species could have been a space faring family of scientists of extremely high technical knowledge and creative ability but somewhat new to the games of playing god over a lessor species.

But whatever the case might be, it is not so easy to explain away that G()D was speaking to his Angels when he is quoted as using the word 'US'.
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:29 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
1,422 posts, read 950,635 times
Reputation: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
If one follows Judaism that one is a Jew...According to HaLakha if one's mother is a Jew then that one is a Jew regardless of that one's belief...
That's better.

Now what Mike said was this:

So your reply was fibbery in a misleading sort of way.
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:33 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotagivan View Post
Oh yes the Angels!

Actually yes, that has been a thought I have thinked.

However, as the story goes, it is not likely as G()D always seemed to speak of the Angels as messengers and being created to do things for him.

This is not the impression given in relation to the phrase 'He has become like US, knowing good and evil" - why would G()D turn to his servants and make a statement which so obviously has them on the same level as He?

One answer is that anyone who is 'of G()D' is equal to G()D in the eyes of G()D.

But no, I am sure that if it had been the Angels G()D was talking to, the verse would have said "And G()D said to his angels, 'He has become like US, knowing good and evil'"

22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

You see? Angels are mentioned down further (as cherubim).

Another interesting thing about this story is that G()D did not want humans to be like him in one particular way...

This is to say that the creator purportedly did not want the human creation to be like Him even that the creation was created in his image.

That speaks against your idea that G()D was speaking to the ANGELS because the angels are also creations of G()D and thus not 'like G()D'.

The story implies that G()D was talking to equals - to brethren. As a family species this species could have been a space faring family of scientists of extremely high technical knowledge and creative ability but somewhat new to the games of playing god over a lessor species.

But whatever the case might be, it is not so easy to explain away that G()D was speaking to his Angels when he is quoted as using the word 'US'.
So, you do not think that Angels knew the difference between good and bad?...
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:35 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotagivan View Post
That's better.

Now what Mike said was this:

So your reply was fibbery in a misleading sort of way.
And your point is?...
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:41 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
1,422 posts, read 950,635 times
Reputation: 197
I already made my point. You were fibbing.
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:45 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotagivan View Post
I already made my point. You were fibbing.
How so?...
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:49 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
1,422 posts, read 950,635 times
Reputation: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
So, you do not think that Angels knew the difference between good and bad?...
According to folklore the angels knew good from evil and by some accounts a bunch of them rebelled and lost their status.

But that was not my point really.

My point was that G()D is never portrayed as considering his angels to be like him - as in equal to.

So it is an unlikely explanation that he was referring to the angels when using the expression 'like US'.

But it does raise an interesting thought that knowing good and evil is not the problem.

But the point was, G()D is quoted as saying that he was quite capable of referring to others in equal status to himself.

And just to remind you - if G()D was speaking to his angels then it would have been written that was who he was speaking to.

Otherwise lord knows the confusion it might cause down the way, when Christians might see the verse as signifying Jesus was the one G()D was speaking to at the time.

And lord knows G()D is not one to cause confusion right?

Right?

RIGHT?
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:52 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,016,467 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotagivan View Post
According to folklore the angels knew good from evil and by some accounts a bunch of them rebelled and lost their status.

But that was not my point really.

My point was that G()D is never portrayed as considering his angels to be like him - as in equal to.

So it is an unlikely explanation that he was referring to the angels when using the expression 'like US'.

But it does raise an interesting thought that knowing good and evil is not the problem.

But the point was, G()D is quoted as saying that he was quite capable of referring to others in equal status to himself.

And just to remind you - if G()D was speaking to his angels then it would have been written that was who he was speaking to.

Otherwise lord knows the confusion it might cause down the way, when Christians might see the verse as signifying Jesus was the one G()D was speaking to at the time.

And lord knows G()D is not one to cause confusion right?

Right?

RIGHT?
Trust me, it is a more valid explanation than the trinity...
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:56 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
1,422 posts, read 950,635 times
Reputation: 197
You have given me no reason to trust you.

I would rather be shown how that is so, than take someones word for it.

No offence intended. It is the sensible route to take.

Do you see this?

When I ask:

Quote:
And lord knows G()D is not one to cause confusion right?

Right?

RIGHT?
the correct answer is not:

"Trust me, it is a more valid explanation than the trinity..."

Of course not.

The correct answer is 'Yes you are right. G()D is not one to cause possible future confusion by neglecting to be clear with the present'.
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Old 05-28-2015, 01:21 PM
 
6,366 posts, read 2,914,670 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotagivan View Post
According to folklore the angels knew good from evil and by some accounts a bunch of them rebelled and lost their status.

But that was not my point really.

My point was that G()D is never portrayed as considering his angels to be like him - as in equal to.

So it is an unlikely explanation that he was referring to the angels when using the expression 'like US'.

But it does raise an interesting thought that knowing good and evil is not the problem.

But the point was, G()D is quoted as saying that he was quite capable of referring to others in equal status to himself.

And just to remind you - if G()D was speaking to his angels then it would have been written that was who he was speaking to.

Otherwise lord knows the confusion it might cause down the way, when Christians might see the verse as signifying Jesus was the one G()D was speaking to at the time.

And lord knows G()D is not one to cause confusion right?

Right?

RIGHT?

God did not use the term us as in an equal status--

Let us( Jehovah and his master worker) create man in our image( the capability of love and reasoning)

Jesus is the master worker(prov 8-1Cor 1:30)

Gods power goes through Jesus( Acts 2:22)

Trinity religions have this twisted into unreality.
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