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The intent of the gospel in this day and age is both foolish and a stumbling block to institutionalized Christianity, and will always be why it believes it is about a few going to heaven and the rest to eternal hell or all going to heaven and none being lost. The gospel is the recovery of that which is lost in all of us, which is the peace of God and knowledge of the good will of God, when you have this, heaven and hell are no concern to you, for nothing can separate us from either, it took a great act of love to recover this for us.
When I was a kid I can remember thinking fondly about God and his son, Jesus.
But one day someone at church told me about "salvation." It was the WORST news I had ever heard in my life. I understood that I believed in Jesus and that he was good, and I wanted to be like him. But I didn't understand how this belief could save me. And I didn't understand how a person who didn't also believe in it would suffer everlasting torment for refusing to believe.
It made me question my faith. I used to like Jesus. But now I was being told that I HAD to believe in this story or be separated for eternity from God. And, later on, I learned that not everyone who *thinks* he is a believer is a true believer. Suddenly I had more worries than I could have imagined.
How is that good news?
It isn't good news. You were right to think fondly about God and His Son though. Just because their message is screwed up (God is always angry) doesn't mean you need to doubt your faith, right?
For those that still hold to the teaching of ET, you always mention the justice of God. But tell me, is it just to hand out sentences of eternal suffering for finite, maybe even trivial crimes? That is like our courts handing out a life sentence to someone for a parking ticket? Really? THIS is your just God?
It isn't good news. You were right to think fondly about God and His Son though. Just because their message is screwed up (God is always angry) doesn't mean you need to doubt your faith, right?
For those that still hold to the teaching of ET, you always mention the justice of God. But tell me, is it just to hand out sentences of eternal suffering for finite, maybe even trivial crimes? That is like our courts handing out a life sentence to someone for a parking ticket? Really? THIS is your just God?
You misunderstand the issue. God is perfect righteousness and demands no less in His creatures. In order to have a relationship with God you need to have a righteousness acceptable to God. God created Adam with a righteousness which was acceptable to Him. But when Adam sinned his nature was changed to one of unrighteousness in comparison with God's own perfect righteousness. Adam's fallen condition was passed down to the entire human race of which he was the federal head. Man's relative righteousness simply cannot have fellowship with God's absolute righteousness.
Now, Jesus went to the cross to pay the penalty for the sins of mankind. Whether or not a person receives Christ as Savior, his sins have been paid for and are no longer an issue so far as salvation goes (they are still an issue as far as the believers fellowship with God in his daily life goes however). However, the issue of man's imperfect and relative righteousness still remains. It is not until a person places his faith in Christ Jesus that God then imputes or credits that individual with Christ's own perfect righteousness which places him into a saving and eternal relationship with God (See Romans chapters 3-5). When a person dies never having received Christ as Savior he remains in a state of relative imperfect righteousness and must remain under condemnation since there is no compatibility between his imperfect righteousness and God's perfect righteousness.
For those that still hold to the teaching of ET, you always mention the justice of God. But tell me, is it just to hand out sentences of eternal suffering for finite, maybe even trivial crimes? That is like our courts handing out a life sentence to someone for a parking ticket? Really? THIS is your just God?
Yes, it absolutely is their God. In my church we said the following every week in the liturgy: "I am a poor miserable sinner deserving nothing but temporal and eternal punishment."*
The only thing that "saved" us was Jesus taking our deserved punishment upon himself on the cross. It was very similar to the "total depravity" doctrine of Calvinism.
* yes, that kind of thing does real psychological damage, as you can imagine.
You misunderstand the issue. God is perfect righteousness and demands no less in His creatures. In order to have a relationship with God you need to have a righteousness acceptable to God. God created Adam with a righteousness which was acceptable to Him. But when Adam sinned his nature was changed to one of unrighteousness in comparison with God's own perfect righteousness. Adam's fallen condition was passed down to the entire human race of which he was the federal head. Man's relative righteousness simply cannot have fellowship with God's absolute righteousness.
Now, Jesus went to the cross to pay the penalty for the sins of mankind. Whether or not a person receives Christ as Savior, his sins have been paid for and are no longer an issue so far as salvation goes (they are still an issue as far as the believers fellowship with God in his daily life goes however). However, the issue of man's imperfect and relative righteousness still remains. It is not until a person places his faith in Christ Jesus that God then imputes or credits that individual with Christ's own perfect righteousness which places him into a saving and eternal relationship with God (See Romans chapters 3-5). When a person dies never having received Christ as Savior he remains in a state of relative imperfect righteousness and must remain under condemnation since there is no compatibility between his imperfect righteousness and God's perfect righteousness.
How can God demand perfect righteousness from his creatures when he alone is God who is perfect and righteousness ? Do you believe his creatures are God or God like too?. If the righteousness given to Adam was not the same righteousness that God is, then the creatures righteousness would never live up to the demand.
How can God demand perfect righteousness from his creatures when he alone is God who is perfect and righteousness ? Do you believe his creatures are God or God like too?. If the righteousness given to Adam was not the same righteousness that God is, then the creatures righteousness would never live up to the demand.
God knows you will sin. He expects it. It's not about being a perfect human being. It's about having a humble, loving and repentant heart. Your heart is all that God is looking at.
God knows you will sin. He expects it. It's not about being a perfect human being. It's about having a humble, loving and repentant heart. Your heart is all that God is looking at.
Then why demand perfect righteousness ? Would you make such demand that is not possible of somebody ?. I don't accept answers such as God being God he can do what he wants. If we were made from the same mold as God, then i could understand the demand.
Then why demand perfect righteousness ? Would you make such demand that is not possible of somebody ?. I don't accept answers such as God being God he can do what he wants. If we were made from the same mold as God, then i could understand the demand.
He does not demand perfection. He demands the effort.
Wait, so if I don't grab hold of the life preserver, I'm going to drown? What kind of choice is that? What kind of Coast Guard allows people to drown if they don't accept their 'help'? I mean, I have NO CHOICE but to take their life-saving equipment or I'll die a horrible death by drowning?
I am boycotting the Coast Guard and all Lifeguards and Pool Monitors due to how egotistical and mean they are.
No, it's more like you were thrown 6 different life preservers, but only one is able to float. If you happen to grab the wrong one (Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc) ... sorry, you drown. Only those who were lucky to guess the correct life preserver are saved.
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Wait, so if I don't grab hold of the life preserver, I'm going to drown? What kind of choice is that? What kind of Coast Guard allows people to drown if they don't accept their 'help'? I mean, I have NO CHOICE but to take their life-saving equipment or I'll die a horrible death by drowning?
