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I think I need to define my term concerning "evangel" and "evangelize."
The evangel for the nations is that "Christ died for our sins, was entombed and was roused from the dead" and believing that proves to the one believing that they are chosen to believe. The evangelist evangelizes the evangel. It is not about "religion" being evangelized. Nor is the evangel evangelized "to help society wobble along until everyone is saved."
There were different religions in Paul's day. Those religions didn't save anyone from sin and death. The true evangel was needed to save those chosen out of their false religion.
"Could have" and "why the need to wait" can be asked. Christ came in the fulness of time. God waited until the right time for His Son to be sent into the world to save us. God operates on His timeline.
I disagree with Mystic. You are correct to question his idea.
That is kind of like saying, "If my bills are going to be paid anyway, why need to send any money to pay them off?" God is not going to "just save everyone." God is going to save all mankind because Christ ransomed all mankind (see 1 Timothy 2:4-6). Had Christ not died for mankind's sins, no one could be saved.
It is a false understanding that the ones who never heard will enter into salvation for eonian life. Under the "eternal torment" paradigm, people feel the need to be God's Public Relations man. They think God can't possibly eternally torture people in fire if they never heard. Well, God isn't going to eternally torture anyone in the first place.
God is going to save all mankind ***eventually.*** God is saving a distinct group of people NOW.
Even in Genesis God told the non-evolutionized pair (wink) the prophetic statement that their seed would crush Satan's [the serpent's] head yet the serpent would wound His heel. So God sending His Son into the world was pre-planned. We could ask, Why didn't God have Abel be the Saviour? or Seth? But God needed to send Him at the perfect time.
But Christ being sent into the world, dying for our sins was planned. He did fulfill the prophecies.
Sorry. None of that works for me. The only point even relevant is the one about paying the bills. Apart from the only person levying a tax is yourself, so who needs paying, is if you had the cash ready, why wait? There wasn't a suitable opportunity before the 1st c? As I said, Isaac would have done.
The only explanation I can think of is Mystic's, and you don't buy that, so it has no explanation. To make my position quite clear the other points you post are not within a five -hour airline flight of an explanation.
Perhaps I'll bid you -all farewell and leave you to your scriptural food -fight.
OP: If you can't read simple statements and understand simple English, then there is no help for you.
Mt 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. Mt 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Mt 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
OP: If you can't read simple statements and understand simple English, then there is no help for you.
Mt 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. Mt 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Did you not read what I already wrote concerning Matthew 7:13?
"13 The crowds enter a city by the broad road which passes through the wide gate. The narrow side-paths leading to a narrow gateway in some retired corner were seldom used and were always shut in the daytime and locked at night. Few find or use these paths. This is not an illustration of the gospel, but of the law. It represents an effort to attain life. It is not stated that few find life, but few find the path to it. All life is God's gift and can never be made by man, either in the sphere of religion or of science" (Concordant Commentary on Matthew 7:13).
Quote:
Mt 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Yes that **translation** does say "eternal" in it. But if that **translation** is correct, then it contradicts other very plain scriptures which tell us "God will have all mankind to be saved" (1 Tim.2:4) and many other verses.
The Greek word is aionion and is an adjective derived from its noun "aion." Since no aion is eternal, the adjective cannot possibly mean "eternal." It just has to the duty of informing us of that which pertains to the aion or aions as the case may be.
Also, Matthew 25:31-46 is not about "heaven" and "hell" but rather it is about the 1000 year kingdom Christ will be setting up in Israel. The **NATIONS** that did not help Christ's brethren during their tribulation will have to enter into eonian chastening which is the chastening pertaining to that specific eon. The **NATIONS** which did treat Christ's brethren correctly during their tribulation will enjoy the eonian life flowing out of that kingdom.
Here are some better translations:
(WNT) "And these shall go away into the Punishment of the Ages, but the righteous into the Life of the Ages."
(YLT) And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
(CLV) And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."
Now you can believe the rest of God's revelation concerning all mankind.
The dead knowing nothing pertains to the souls no longer living in the land of the living of not knowing any more hope.
Ecclesiastes 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
That also does away with the notion that those in hell can be ransomed.
Which "hell" are you talking about?
Please tell me, if all believers go directly to heaven right when they die, then why is there a need for a resurrection? And why did Paul say if there is no resurrection that more forlorn than all men are we?
The fact is, no believer is in heaven and no unbeliever is in your idea of hell. The dead are in the grave. They must await the resurrection to be judged.
Sorry. None of that works for me. The only point even relevant is the one about paying the bills. Apart from the only person levying a tax is yourself, so who needs paying, is if you had the cash ready, why wait? There wasn't a suitable opportunity before the 1st c? As I said, Isaac would have done.
The only explanation I can think of is Mystic's, and you don't buy that, so it has no explanation. To make my position quite clear the other points you post are not within a five -hour airline flight of an explanation.
Perhaps I'll bid you -all farewell and leave you to your scriptural food -fight.
That's okay friend, one day you will see it for God has promised you and all that He "will have all mankind to be saved and brought into a realization of the truth" (1 Tim.2:4).
Romans 8:20-21 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but on account of Him who subjected it in hope;
(21) because even the creation itself shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the
children of God. (English Majority Text Version)
Notice it does not say "the creation won't be freed." Nor does it say "the creation will have a choice to be freed."
Notice that it does say that the creation shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
How can that happen if billions are held captive for eternity?
Romans 8:20-21 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but on account of Him who subjected it in hope;
(21) because even the creation itself shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the
children of God. (English Majority Text Version)
Notice it does not say "the creation won't be freed." Nor does it say "the creation will have a choice to be freed."
Notice that it does say that the creation shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
How can that happen if billions are held captive for eternity?
They can't answer it.
I have no doubt the teaching of ET IS the great falling away. Look at the damage it's caused over the years. It's affected our very concept of who God is. It makes it easier to go to war, OK for death penalty, OK to use violence, heck if God fries 'em forever, must be OK for me to inflict some hurt too if they wrong me.
I have no doubt the teaching of ET IS the great falling away. Look at the damage it's caused over the years. It's affected our very concept of who God is. It makes it easier to go to war, OK for death penalty, OK to use violence, heck if God fries 'em forever, must be OK for me to inflict some hurt too if they wrong me.
You've hit a very important point here. If "Rightious" judgment is the most agonizing torture you can imagine for ALL Eternity (supposely because God decided it was at the beginning of time), then WE should have no laws against cruel and unusual punishment and reinstitute "Vlad the Impaler" style Tortures that take weeks just so we can have just a sliver of "God's rightiousness." Luckly, modern evangelicals are finally figuring just how morally berserker Crazy this belief is and is why more and more Christian apologists no longer believe hell is an eternal torture chamber. It is morally unreconcilable infinitely beyond any known standard of justice and even gives some vile suggestions about how to should do things in the Criminal justice system...
For those of you fundamentalists here who still believe hell is an eternal torture chamber, perhaps you shouldn't read the above paragraph because you might question your own faith too much, but just know their are biblically possible alternatives to this madness.
OP: If you can't read simple statements and understand simple English, then there is no help for you.
Mt 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. Mt 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Mt 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Please notice the time frame or time setting for Matthew 25:46. It takes place at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth. That judgment on earth is still ahead of us pertaining to the humble sheep and haughty goats before the start of Jesus' coming 1000-year kingdom reign over earth, when the righteous sheep on earth can remain alive on earth and continue living on earth right into the start of Jesus' millennium-long day of ruling over earth. No ' goats ' will be here to mar the start of Jesus' messianic reign over earth when Jesus ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.
OP: If you can't read simple statements and understand simple English, then there is no help for you.
Mt 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. Mt 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Note that it does NOT say and only a few who BELIEVE it. Our salvation has nothing to do with what we BELIEVE about God or Jesus. Our salvation was entirely in the hands of Jesus . . . not us . . . and "It is finished!" Our sanctification under His love for us all is determined by how well we follow Christ's instructions to His disciples to love God and each other every day and repent when we don't. It is all about agape love.
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