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Old 01-29-2015, 08:29 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,917,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
How about this:

You like women a lot, but you must never ever have a relationship with a woman. You must resist the urge to court the ladies. That is just the way it is. If you are a true upright man I think you can do it.

I don't care how much you yearn to get married and love a woman as your wife. You are not supposed to have a GF or a wife. You need to be celibate for the rest of your life.


Can you do it?

Is that fair to you?
No because if men took this attitude, then none of us would exist. I think the question, which you did not answer is, if you argue that someone is born that way, then where do you draw the line? Almost anyone can use that same argument, but I would assume you do not believe pedophilia is okay, no?
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Old 01-29-2015, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,261 posts, read 14,110,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans View Post
No because if men took this attitude, then none of us would exist. I think the question, which you did not answer is, if you argue that someone is born that way, then where do you draw the line? Almost anyone can use that same argument, but I would assume you do not believe pedophilia is okay, no?
Is the concept of legal consent something that you can't grasp?
A child can not give legal consent. Neither can an animal, or a toaster.
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:04 AM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,270,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans View Post
No because if men took this attitude, then none of us would exist. I think the question, which you did not answer is, if you argue that someone is born that way, then where do you draw the line? Almost anyone can use that same argument, but I would assume you do not believe pedophilia is okay, no?
Pedophilia is not OK because children are harmed.

In homosexuality two consenting adults do whatever they do in the privacy of their bedroom and no one is harmed.

I hope you can see the difference.

Last edited by Julian658; 01-29-2015 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,682 posts, read 6,679,760 times
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Some of the best parts of the article:
Quote:
"Accepting myself as I truly am requires that I reject a belief that I have a sexual identity other than being a man made for women."

"The notion that gender and sexuality reside in the mind, or can be chosen at will, is opposed to human flourishing and the true nature of man."

“today, the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of the human person when she refuses to consider the person as a ‘heterosexual’ or a ‘homosexual’ and insists that every person has a fundamental Identity: the creature of God, and by grace, his child and heir to eternal life.”

"Thus, I find the phrase “gay celibate” a rejection of the very nature of who God made man in the Garden of Eden. I will never say of myself that I am a gay man, for I know that I must humbly “accept and acknowledge” the sexual nature that God gave me: I am a man, made for woman."

"Above all else, chastity is about the real nature of things. I don’t get to choose a sexual identity. Sexual identities aren't the sorts of things that can be chosen, for we are not our own. We have sexual identities, given to us by God. We can accept the truth, and live our lives based on reality. We may reject the truth, but if we do, how can we ever live fully chaste lives?"
I applaud the Roman Catholic Church for holding the line on chastity, telling it like it is and standing firm on so many other moral issues. They are standing strong and resolute in the face of a world-wide culture where sexual deviancy is being reclassified as "normal".

Catholicism's message on this issue gets badly muddied by the completely fabricated doctrine of celibacy. Many of the Catholics who would now define themselves as "gay celibate" are the same sorts of folks who became gay and pedofile priests. Rather than courageously confronting their sexual deviancies like the article's author Daniel Mattson, many gay or otherwise sexually deviant Catholic men see the clergy as a safe place to hide from their distasteful sexual urges. Obviously, that has led (and continues to lead) to disaster. A man hiding deviant sexual urges being left alone with their parishioners, especially children. The result is obvious and it's a self perpetuating problem.

To the "gay celibate" Catholic folks, the very teaching of celibacy offers deviants a ready excuse to opt out. They undoubtedly must think, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander, if it's a higher way of living for priests then it's a higher way of living for everybody."

If Catholicism just dropped celibacy entirely and replaced it with the New Testament standard that "a bishop is to be the husband of and faithful to one wife" that'd help immensely. Priests could actually advise parishioners who are married with children based on personal experience. And the requirement of entering the clergy happily and faithfully married to a wife would strongly deter sexual deviants from entering the clergy. They would also have a much clearer message on this particular issue.

Still, muddied waters notwithstanding, the Roman Catholic Church is doing vastly better than the growing list of Protestant denominations that have folded like the proverbial lawn chair to societal pressures and accepted homosexuality as completely normal.
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:41 AM
 
1,606 posts, read 1,243,989 times
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Jesus calls us to die to ourselves and take up our cross for Him and the glory of God. Every day we are tempted to sin and it is through the work of the Holy Spirit that we resist temptation and remain righteous before God. So the woman who was born with a propensity toward stealing, resists. The man who was born with a propensity toward anger, has strength. The woman who felt like she cannot resist over-eating, overcomes through the life-changing power of God. Similarly, those born with a propensity toward same-sex attraction are able to resist and live joyful, fulfilling lives in the service of God. If a person truly believes that Christ was tortured and crucified for them personally in order to spend an eternity in the presence of God, then keeping themselves sexually pure is the least they can do.

Philippians 4:13 lays it out simply and without question...
" I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:14 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,917,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Is the concept of legal consent something that you can't grasp?
A child can not give legal consent. Neither can an animal, or a toaster.
But multiple women can, so does that justify that argument? And then with children, what age is appropriate? Regardless of what the law says, it's unclear as to how you determine what is appropriate for consent for a moral perspective because there are children who are not adult age, but are mature enough to handle adult matters, so where does the line become clear here?
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:16 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,917,056 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Pedophilia is not OK because children are harmed.

In homosexuality two consenting adults do whatever they do in the privacy of their bedroom and no one is harmed.

I hope you can see the difference.
Is a teenager harmed then?
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,682 posts, read 6,679,760 times
Reputation: 6588
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_Maxx View Post
Jesus calls us to die to ourselves and take up our cross for Him and the glory of God. Every day we are tempted to sin and it is through the work of the Holy Spirit that we resist temptation and remain righteous before God. So the woman who was born with a propensity toward stealing, resists. The man who was born with a propensity toward anger, has strength. The woman who felt like she cannot resist over-eating, overcomes through the life-changing power of God. Similarly, those born with a propensity toward same-sex attraction are able to resist and live joyful, fulfilling lives in the service of God. If a person truly believes that Christ was tortured and crucified for them personally in order to spend an eternity in the presence of God, then keeping themselves sexually pure is the least they can do.

Philippians 4:13 lays it out simply and without question...
" I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
Very well put! I love everything you said! Resisting our sinful urges is what makes a Christian a Christian.

One correction though: We're a long ways off from actually proving that anybody is actually born gay. Studies of fraternal and identical twins -- with at least one of the twins being gay -- have yielded a variety of results and interpretations. But in order to definitively say "gays are born that way" we would expect to see a gay person's identical twin also turn out gay 100% of the time. Same DNA. Same experience in the womb. But in the majority of cases, the gay person's identical twin is heterosexual. It's a complicated issue. I don't know if homosexuality can necessarily be unlearned by all gays. But I know from first hand observation that it can be unlearned by some.
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:24 AM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,281,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans View Post
Is a teenager harmed then?

As much as they are from smoking, drinking, voting, buying and carrying guns, or signing up for loans.
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,003,465 times
Reputation: 14068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
How about this:

You like women a lot, but you must never ever have a relationship with a woman. You must resist the urge to court the ladies. That is just the way it is. If you are a true upright man I think you can do it.

I don't care how much you yearn to get married and love a woman as your wife. You are not supposed to have a GF or a wife. You need to be celibate for the rest of your life.


Can you do it?

Is that fair to you?
I notice you received no answer.

What a surprise....
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