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You're taking it to the extreme, to serve your purpose. Nevertheless, Scripture is clear we are saved from God's wrath. How do you deal with Romans 5:9?
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
I'd say that "wrath" is an extreme of a perception of anger at selfish behavior that merits correction and whoever wrote that was in error.
Christ said, "I have come that you may have life and have it more abundantly"
From this and the rest of scripture, we understand that Christ did not come to simply 're-give us something that we already had.' Christ did not die on the cross because we were 'bad', but, because we were 'DEAD.' IMO, the constant shifting of the issue away from 'true Spiritual Life' to "escaping the torments of hell" misses this 'herd of elephants in the room.'
I'm familiar with it and the theology that is built on it, I just don't buy some of the perceptions or expressions of them.
I figured as much. Instead of tossing the scriptures out the window because it doesn't agree with your presuppositions, why not perhaps ask what the Bible actually says and change your thinking?
Maybe because it's how scripture teaches it. Christ is specifically called the "propitiation" for our sin. Because of him, we are first and foremost saved from the wrath of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
My God already saved me and he is not violent or full of wrath.
As usual . . . even the believers in a wrathful God do NOT believe Christ saved us. They are inconsistent. They believe that Christ's horrendous scourging and crucifixion was to satisfy God's wrath and save us . . . yet they believe WE still have to be saved from God's wrath. What about Christ saved us and we have nothing to do with it do they NOT understand???
As usual . . . even the believers in a wrathful God do NOT believe Christ saved us. They are inconsistent. They believe that Christ's horrendous scourging and crucifixion was to satisfy God's wrath and save us . . . yet they believe WE still have to be saved from God's wrath. What about Christ saved us and we have nothing to do with it do they NOT understand???
Yes--he did save us at the cross. I've never suggested otherwise. By satisfying God's wrath, we are saved.
Col 2:13-14 " When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross."
As usual . . . even the believers in a wrathful God do NOT believe Christ saved us. They are inconsistent. They believe that Christ's horrendous scourging and crucifixion was to satisfy God's wrath and save us . . . yet they believe WE still have to be saved from God's wrath.
Not true (bolded above).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
What about Christ saved us and we have nothing to do with it do they NOT understand???
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