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Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
I Like the way this one is stated, even I can go along with this, but most fundamentalists and even mainline protestants and Catholics push substitutionary atonement as formulated by Anselm and modified by Calvin.
There are a number of theories that explain the mechanism of "Atonement" and they are worth a study. Wikipedia has an article on the subject that is worth a look.
My personal perception is (I am told) a variation of the "Christus Victor" model first proposed (as far as I know) by that eminent theologian, Herman Melville in his novel, Billy Budd, Sailor, in which Law is rendered invalid as basis for judgment by the necessary execution of an essentially innocent man. It then becomes a matter of the condition of the heart as to how you stand before God.
Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin
I Like the way this one is stated, even I can go along with this, but most fundamentalists and even mainline protestants and Catholics push substitutionary atonement as formulated by Anselm and modified by Calvin.
I'm lost, and am too lazy to research this one out myself. If "Christ's death was the atonement for sin," isn't that substitutionary atonement? What am I missing?
If we consider Atonement as "making up for the deficiencies of" humankind (eg. "sins" = missing the mark) . . . then atonement for our species' "missing the mark" (sins) was definitely necessary. If you see atonement as some kind of payment or scapegoat punishment from a vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices . . . then absolutely NOT!!! Jesus did what we could NOT! That is how He atoned for our deficiencies (sins). He connected ALL human consciousness with God through His human consciousness.
If we consider Atonement as "making up for the deficiencies of" humankind (eg. "sins" = missing the mark) . . . then atonement for our species' "missing the mark" (sins) was definitely necessary. If you see atonement as some kind of payment or scapegoat punishment from a vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices . . . then absolutely NOT!!! Jesus did what we could NOT! That is how He atoned for our deficiencies (sins). He connected ALL human consciousness with God through His human consciousness.
Sin is not a human deficiency. Sin is unfaithfulness towards the Lord (Numbers 5:6).
Yes atonement in this regards requires an offering to the Lord.
If we consider Atonement as "making up for the deficiencies of" humankind (eg. "sins" = missing the mark) . . . then atonement for our species' "missing the mark" (sins) was definitely necessary. If you see atonement as some kind of payment or scapegoat punishment from a vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices . . . then absolutely NOT!!! Jesus did what we could NOT! That is how He atoned for our deficiencies (sins). He connected ALL human consciousness with God through His human consciousness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Sin is not a human deficiency. Sin is unfaithfulness towards the Lord (Numbers 5:6).
Yes atonement in this regards requires an offering to the Lord.
Of course our sins are a deficiency in our response to our inner urges. Our embryo Spirits are weak and our animal drives are strong producing sin. We need to mature our Spirits and develop the strength to override our animal drives out of agape love . . . as Christ did. Fortunately, because of Christ . . . we do not need to be perfect. It has nothing to do with an offering to God. It has everything to do with becoming more like Jesus and God in agape love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Christ Jesus' death was not a propitiation to satisfy or appease a wrathful god.
Amen! That barbaric and savage belief has outlived its usefulness and like the salt that has lost its strength must be thrown out.
What Jesus did on the cross was necessary for our salvation. There are natural laws and spiritual laws. The atonement is a spiritual law we can see from Genesis 3:21 to Revelation 12:11. It has to do with the fall of mankind, when sin and death entered this creation of God. First sin was covert by the blood of animals. But that was not enough to deliver us from the power of Satan, who has the power over death. There is natural death and spiritual death, which is separation from God, He send Jesus His Son, to defeat Satan at the cross and deliver us from spiritual death through the resurrection of the dead.
Through the fall every human is under the power of death (Satan) and is seperated from God. We inherited the sin nature from Adam and therefore all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But through faith on Jesus we can get life, which is the presence of God, being born again through the Holy Spirit in our life.
Satan is defeated at the cross and we can overcome him by the blood of the Lamb. They that do not believe in the blood will not overcome, they are powerless and cannot reach the goal, even by keeping the law or part of it, faith on Jesus requires the atonement and the resurrection and to love Him is to obey Him. Human efforts to reach the goal is what Satan offers in some religion and opinions of men (philosophy) and Jesus called the Pharesees children of Satan. Jesus is not an example how to live, He is the Savior by what He did at the cross and by His resurrection He lives and saves us in this life from the kingdom of darkness that we may live with Him for ever in the Kingdom of God.
For the rest of you - I am not going to work too hard here. You choose not to believe and I can't make you believe. That only comes from an inner working in each of you by God - if He chooses to do so.
For the rest of you - I am not going to work too hard here. You choose not to believe and I can't make you believe. That only comes from an inner working in each of you by God - if He chooses to do so.
My understanding is we decide to follow?
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Fundamentals 3 "Atonement"
