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where does it say anything about hell? sheol is not hell.
However you might have missed my point so will clarify.
Hell is wherever God is not, God is everywhere, therefore there is no hell. (speaking about the traditional church taught hell)
Good point. Lets look deeper then.
If god = consciousness and in relation to the metaphor of creation in Genesis, it breathed life into human form, essentially god placed itself - or an aspect of itself into that form by making the form conscious.
In doing so the result was a being which externalized everything and forgot who it was or were it originated, and thus got about being human in everything that entails.
Switching focus now to the concept of hell, essentially for there to actually be such a place and for god to confine consciousness to this place, god is effectively consigning itself to this place - in one form or another.
Apart from that, it is ridiculous to think that any idea of god would be so unjust as to punish anyone worse than the original crime, and in the case of forever suffering pain and torment in flames and lava any crime is always going to be less a crime than the punishment of hell.
When I think about the idea of hell, I really wonder at the darkness that must reside in those who promote it as a belief.
You don't understand Hell, because of your carnal reasoning... What do you think Jesus came to save us from? A bad day at the golf course? Hell is real, and so is the lake of fire. But that is not the point... To live forever is the point. The reward of believing in God is Eternal Life... To live forever. Why risk losing Eternal Life just because you don't understand the nature of God? Seek and you shall find. If you get the knowledge of God, the concept of Hell will make complete sense to you, and you will no longer fear Hell. Don't remain ignorant of the truth. It is not worth it... Eternity is a long time to be wrong about Heaven and Hell.
You don't understand Hell, because of your carnal reasoning... What do you think Jesus came to save us from? A bad day at the golf course? Hell is real, and so is the lake of fire. But that is not the point... To live forever is the point. The reward of believing in God is Eternal Life... To live forever. Why risk losing Eternal Life just because you don't understand the nature of God? Seek and you shall find. If you get the knowledge of God, the concept of Hell will make complete sense to you, and you will no longer fear Hell. Don't remain ignorant of the truth. It is not worth it... Eternity is a long time to be wrong about Heaven and Hell.
TC
Your reasoning is incorrect.
Jesus did not come to save me from hell. He came to instruct me on the true nature of the idea of god.
You say to live forever is the point to hell existing? That is what you believe.
You seem to fail to understand that either way (as far as those who believe such things are concerned) individuals get to live forever.
Now before you reply with the standard type argument "but being in hell is not living" I will curtail such nonsense by saying that living = experiencing, and this imaginary place you believe is real - well what good is it if those sent there are not alive in order to experience the suffering?
It is not a question of being right or wrong about the existence of heaven or hell. Those concepts do not factor into motivating a person to expressing authentic loving kindness.
As the OP clearly states, the question has to do with the rightness of an idea of a god which would do this to anyone. Not justifying such an action. Seeing it for what it is. A fabrication of disgusting minds who weaseled (and murdered) their way into positions of assumed authority in the name of the very idea of god to pollute the idea and poison the well that the very idea of god become a thing to fear and obey blindly, or conversely - to be repugnant of - depending upon the individuals demeanor.. That is what the Jews did with their idea of god. Jesus (as the story goes) seems to have come along and rebutted the established organised Jewish religions by attempting to clear the name of 'god' and give a clearer idea as to the true nature of 'god' as he experienced it.
Unfortunately, the deceivers simply infiltrated and added their own spin on what Jesus said in order to create the necessary confusion and conflict which enables them to continue to keep their place in the scheme of things.
But of course, Jesus knew that was inevitable and warned those who had ears to hear and eyes to see. Deceivers would follow after him and in his name would spin and twist and distort as they always have in relation to - not only ideas of god(s) but in every other aspect of human society.
Do you think that I am concerned with your idle beliefs regarding what god is and how god operates?
So tell me this Crier, how do you know Hell is real?
where does it say anything about hell? sheol is not hell.
However you might have missed my point so will clarify.
Hell is wherever God is not, God is everywhere, therefore there is no hell. (speaking about the traditional church taught hell)
That is a lie of the Devil. You also just called Jesus a liar;
Jesus Red Letter words:
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Don't let anyone convince you Hell does not exist for people that die... Jesus clearly gave us an illustration of Hell, and said plainly those that die go there. Those that belong to Him will never die and thus won't end up in Hell:
Joh 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
When your body dies, you will either go on living Spiritually and go to Heaven, or you will be in Hell.
Where will you go when your body dies? Don't be fooled by the Devil. He wants you in Hell with him...
Jesus did not come to save me from hell. He came to instruct me on the true nature of the idea of god.
You say to live forever is the point to hell existing? That is what you believe.
You seem to fail to understand that either way (as far as those who believe such things are concerned) individuals get to live forever.
Now before you reply with the standard type argument "but being in hell is not living" I will curtail such nonsense by saying that living = experiencing, and this imaginary place you believe is real - well what good is it if those sent there are not alive in order to experience the suffering?
It is not a question of being right or wrong about the existence of heaven or hell. Those concepts do not factor into motivating a person to expressing authentic loving kindness.
As the OP clearly states, the question has to do with the rightness of an idea of a god which would do this to anyone. Not justifying such an action. Seeing it for what it is. A fabrication of disgusting minds who weaseled (and murdered) their way into positions of assumed authority in the name of the very idea of god to pollute the idea and poison the well that the very idea of god become a thing to fear and obey blindly, or conversely - to be repugnant of - depending upon the individuals demeanor.. That is what the Jews did with their idea of god. Jesus (as the story goes) seems to have come along and rebutted the established organised Jewish religions by attempting to clear the name of 'god' and give a clearer idea as to the true nature of 'god' as he experienced it.
Unfortunately, the deceivers simply infiltrated and added their own spin on what Jesus said in order to create the necessary confusion and conflict which enables them to continue to keep their place in the scheme of things.
But of course, Jesus knew that was inevitable and warned those who had ears to hear and eyes to see. Deceivers would follow after him and in his name would spin and twist and distort as they always have in relation to - not only ideas of god(s) but in every other aspect of human society.
Do you think that I am concerned with your idle beliefs regarding what god is and how god operates?
So tell me this Crier, how do you know Hell is real?
Because I believe Jesus...
Jesus words:
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Jesus clearly gave us an illustration of Hell, and said plainly those that die go there. Those that belong to Him will never die and thus won't end up in Hell:
Joh 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Hell is very real my friend... Make no mistake about it. The rich pharisees are there right now in torment... Most of America's 'Christians' are going to be no better off than the Pharisees did...
Rota-don't be fooled by the Devil. He wants you in Hell with him...
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Jesus clearly gave us an illustration of Hell, and said plainly those that die go there. Those that belong to Him will never die and thus won't end up in Hell:
Joh 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Hell is very real my friend... Make no mistake about it. The rich pharisees are there right now in torment... Most of America's 'Christians' are going to be no better off than the Pharisees did...
Rota-don't be fooled by the Devil. He wants you in Hell with him...
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
TC
TC I just read in another thread where you are berating Catholicism for its part in tweaking biblical references.
What can you trust about the bible? What gives you that ability? How are the interpretations you believe in any more truthful than the ones you say are 'of the devil'?
Do you understand the position I am forced to accommodate because of the arguments Christians have against each other (let alone the secular world they also argue with)?
I cannot - I simply cannot take the word of a Christian as 'gospel' (Truth) - As far as I am concerned, when it comes to the bible I decisively cherry pick and find most of it wanting and none of it 'the word of god' but rather a conglomeration of ideas of god(s) which humans have attempted to merge together into one idea, and that idea is patently skewed.
Your ability to assume judgement upon those you think are already in hell is a good sign to me that you are willing to sit in the seat of judgement even that this seat is gods alone to sit in - and as such is a noteworthy sign that you are a deceiver. You have been deceived, you believe in that which has deceived you and you go ahead and spread the deception.
I, on the other hand, am free to pursue truth as best I am able. I consider at the very least this has to involve examining other religions and also other spiritual avenues to see if altogether i might get a better picture of what is actually going on. What you have said here to me, I already know is not actual. It is invention.
In relation to the bible, I simply dump the OT, and anything to do with Paul - indeed I just focus on the gospels and sift through the more obvious deceptions which are even within these books.
what I discover when all the costume makeup and putting words into the mouth of this one called Jesus are removed, is a simplicity which transcends the motivation to do the right thing under threat of hell and damnation. What I find is an idea of a god which is above reproach and is not only approachable but completely understandable. Not mysterious and not a demanded of vainglorious worship. I find a sensible well rounded parent figure who is as close to me as I am to myself.
I find me. And guess what? I also find the same thing in other non Christian figureheads who for all practical purpose are saying the same thing in their own way.
But hey! I am happy to explore the idea of the possibility that hell exists. Lets start by adding two things up together. This post and Jesus' early exodus into Egypt. Both those things point to where the concept of hell originated and why (if Jesus really did speak of this place as a warning) it is important.
check ancient Egyptian about the beginnings of Hell. Lake of fire and whatnots. Hell is just made up by mankind.
After a forest fire, new growth will start.
This is true and many forest fires are called unquenchable
If god = consciousness and in relation to the metaphor of creation in Genesis, it breathed life into human form, essentially god placed itself - or an aspect of itself into that form by making the form conscious.
In doing so the result was a being which externalized everything and forgot who it was or were it originated, and thus got about being human in everything that entails.
Switching focus now to the concept of hell, essentially for there to actually be such a place and for god to confine consciousness to this place, god is effectively consigning itself to this place - in one form or another.
Such an idea of god as this is just crazy.
Well there is a hell, it is just not according to what the church teaches.
According to the Jewish mind Gahanna is a place of purification of up to 12 months.
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