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If you want to attract readers.... put the word homosexuality in your thread title.
You're welcome. I'm here to help.
That's very clever and funny. Good one!
And truly I'm not really saying that in a mocking way toward Christianity at-large. It is more stated here as a simple recognition on my part from my own history and experiences that even when I was a deep-seated and devoted Christian myself for an extent of years, I felt that too many of my fellow conservative Christians were just too almost-obsessively preoccupied with non-heterosexuality in all its varied forms . . . like this is a sin above and beyond all other sins by far. If they would have spent as much time also railing against and cautioning against a host of other sins that are manifested by humanity-at-large (e.g., unbridled greed and avarice, making money & materialism one's god or idol, racial/ethnic enmity, dishonesty, pride, hypocrisy, inappropriate temperament, standing up to injustice in its varied forms, wholesale insensitivity to the plight of the less-fortunate or disadvantaged, the various dimensions of "do unto others", etc. etc. etc.), it would have resulted in a more wholesome, honorable, and well-charactered population of believers at-large that could more effectively impress and persuade others in the interest of the Christian cause rather than to simple alienate others and make instant enemies out of them.
But instead, too many of my fellow conservative Christians allowed themselves to be seemingly possessed and fixated on one single dimension of "sin" (if it is, in fact, in the end, truly a sin in the eyes and mind of the Creator for persons to live lives of non-heterosexuality by whatever name it is called). And even if I felt that it was a sin to be homosexual or bisexual (which I did then), it wasn't my approach to treat such persons in a demeaning, insulting, belittling, and rather off-putting way like their sin was any worse that my myriad sins against our triune God and against my fellow humans over the course of my life history. It wasn't my tact with them to sit on my high horse and act like God/Christ was wholly pleased with me but then wholly displeased toward them (with myself instead aiming to convey to them, if we had dialogue with one another about these issues and dimensions at all, that I felt that my own past and ongoing patterns of sin are just as offensive to our triune God as theirs are . . . even though I am a heterosexual and they are not).
Hopefully, I've provided some useful "food for thought" here about this matter to mull over and contemplate.
Now back to the topic of the OP's thread, which is "prayer" (I didnt' come in here to otherwise "hijack" this thread but just posted a response addressing this poster's particular comment . . . hopefully in an edifying manner).
Well, even if only the case that "sometimes" prayer works (at least in the mind and perception of whoever is the believer stating this) but does not really work "all" or even "nearly all" times, then one can't honestly say that it "works". For if the results or outcomes of said prayers are, in the end, really no better than what would occur as a result of pure randomness, then it cannot really legitimately be proclaimed that it works. And, even if there is, in fact, such a God as you think and speak of (the biblical God), unless you are operating on the thinking that said God intervenes in & micro-manages every single aspect and dimension of our existence and therefore is always responsible for every single outcome and event or non-event which we incur or experience, you can't then really know (in an epistemological sense) when said God intervened at your request (via prayer) for a particular circumstance and when He didn't but rather that the outcome that you incurred was simply just the result of random chance in any particular case (independent of his direct intervention). And if you say that said God does, in fact, always intervene in & micro-manage every single aspect and dimension of our existence (and is therefore directly responsible for everything we experience or incur), then both you and I already know that ALL your prayers throughout your life span to-date were not answered everytime (even if just focusing only on your wholly redeeming and wholesome prayers and filtering out consideration of any of your prayers guided by less-than-redeeming aims or motives) . How can anyone claim otherwise and be believable?
In summary, it is just a matter of being intellectually honesty with ourselves and with one another. We all know that we do NOT get all our wholesome and right-standing prayers answered . . . not to mention our less-than-wholesome or less-than-redeeming prayers answered. So how can ANY of us truly make an outright blanket statement which simply says "Prayer works. Period."? Even if it always worked for some persons but then not always worked for others, that is not a justification to say that "Prayer works. Period." For God deciding to be a classist and exclusivist God who delivers for just some worthy persons but then turning down or turning away other worthy persons is not a valid basis for proclaiming "Prayer works. Period." If it works for me (even if all the time) but it rarely or even never works for you, then it shouldn't be stated even by myself that "Prayer works". We are all in this life together and you deserve to have your wholesome and redeeming prayers granted as much as I deserve mine to be granted . . . and vice versa.
we deserve them answered? lol. yeah, mine too. And I want it in red.
if you are praying you not obsessing. so it can work.
If you are praying about something you are thinking about something. When you are thinking about something and not just reacting you have a better chance of a more favorable solution. So it works again.
If you are praying about the possible options you are aware of the problem and have some reasonable solution(s) in mind. And like buying a car, and seeing them everywhere, sometimes the answer to your problem comes up from outside your circle and the illusion is that it was placed there.
so yeah, in the end pray does work.
Hoping for Magic does not.
Rotagivan haven't you just gone on multiple posts on the atheist forum trying to convince people you are neither 'theist' nor 'atheist'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotagivan
One reason I don't call myself an atheist is the same reason that I don't call myself a Theist and that is because within both theism and atheism there are the bigots who are never shy about dumping everyone into the one or the other category whole proclaiming their particular position is the right one to have and to hold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotagivan
I say I'm an atheist simply because I lack a theistic belief;
It is not as simple as you are saying it is. There is a middle position to which certain types of atheists and theists argue does not exist.
They are often - if theist - fundamentalists and - if atheists - antitheists.
Do you have beliefs either way? If not, you take the middle position, the closest to the default position in relation to other positions and the OP.
Now you are trying to tell everyone that prayer works?
Rotagivan haven't you just gone on multiple posts on the atheist forum trying to convince people you are neither 'theist' nor 'atheist'?
Now you are trying to tell everyone that prayer works?
Yes Cruithne (although strictly speaking I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just saying I have my position and it is a valid position. If anything, some Atheists are trying to convince me otherwise.
What of that?
What is your point and would you like to start a thread about it?
I don't think you've asserted "why" prayer works (as implied in the thread title) as much as you've asserted that prayer works regardless of religious affiliation.
Then it is best to use less-ambiguous and more-explicit phrasing in stating the case, beyond merely saying that "Prayer works" (e.g, "Sometimes, when you or I engage in supplication to God, we find that our desired outcome comes to be . . . and sometimes we find that our desired outcome does not come to be.").
But then the issue is "But even when the submiited prayer does 'seem' to be 'answered', within what time frame is it 'answered'?" That is, asking for relief from the excrutiating pain of losing your leg in an accident and then the pain finally subsiding 3-4 weeks after an operation in which you had your remaining leg amputated and cauterized in a hospital. Would that be considered "answered prayer"? Or you pray for God's help to overcome your crippling social shyness and, 8 or 10 years pass before you can come to feel socially confident and skilled enough to be a viable social creature like so many of your fellow humans are. Is that to be considered "answered prayer"? Or you pray for a parking space downtown and, after driving around for 30-40 minutes, someone vacates a spot and you are able to take that parking spot. Was God answering a prayer of yours? Or was it just that, by random chance, someone else just happened to vacate their parking spot? (But then, in granting YOU this prayer request, God denied another human who also wanted to find a parking spot for their own car downtown . . . so God decided that you were meriting of His intervention but another human wasn't?).
You see where I'm getting at, Rotagivan? How does one really know when a prayer request was really granted specifically to one's specific prayer request and when it wasn't? The time frame of prayer fulfillment (or alleged prayer fulfillment) should have an impact on one's assessment.
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So far no Christian has argued against that idea. 
