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I think a little explanation is needed for what the baby's baptism means in the Episcopal church. It has NOTHING to do with salvation. Salvation is up to God. He reads the heart of the individual. Nothing we can do "saves" a person of any age.
The baptism takes places as a means of entering the child into the Christian family. The parents promise to raise the child as a christian. There are godparents, one couple plus an extra person as the same sex as the baby, who promise that if the parents neglect the training and teachings, they will step in and fulfill those duties. Then as a final note, the congregation promises to stand behind the parents and godparents.
It's an important step that involves a lot of people. Later, the child when they reach an age of understanding, they study the teaching of the Episcopal church and are confirmed as full voting members of the church.
This sounds like the infant baptisms in my church (the United Church of Christ).
If being a christian is about emmulating Jesus then infant baptism has no example in the bible.
Jesus was an adult when John the Baptist, baptized him by immersion.
I also want to state that my children will all baptized in the Catholic church and by full immersion! Not to go OT, but that seems to be a huge contraversial issue.
The danger I see, KayKay, is in the possibility that those baptized as infants might be resting in a false assurance of a salvation they do not possess.
Also, I understand your desire to believe in an age of accountability, but I do not know how that can be proven biblically. Salvation is totally of God--at His chosen time and in His chosen place. We must trust in His character which guarantees that He will always do that which is right and good and just. I have found contentment in leaving the destiny of all born with sin natures to Him no matter what their age and no matter what their station in life.
I think that where the Bible is silent we must learn to be silent also.
Preterist
Yes, I know what you are saying. I don't think, however, that the Bible is TOTALLY silent about the fate of children. I think it implies but does not absolutely state that their is an age of accountability. For example, when David and Bathsheba's baby dies, David states that the child will not come to be with him (David) but that David will go to him (the baby.) Now admittedly, this could be interpreted simply to mean that David will go to the grave as the baby did, but I think it means more than that. I think it implies that David expects to meet the baby ultimately in heaven.
Also, there are 2 scriptures in which the God refers to children as "little ones, not yet knowing right from wrong" (I would have to find the references) This implies again to my thinking that there does exist a point in which God does not hold them morally accountable.
I do agree that "age of accountability" is not an explicit doctrine in scripture, However, I think it is an implied one, but I would also agree that dogmatic positions concerning this and other scripturally uncertain issues should be avoided. I probably should have been clearer in my earlier post that that is simply my opinion based on scripture, not a scriptural absolute. I think we can, as you said, trust God's mercy in such matters. (Hopefully, this is not too off-thread, but I think it does apply somewhat to the topic at hand.)
Baptism is for believers and believers need to confess with their mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord ... Infants don't talk. If the family or whomever want to have a formal ceremony or whatever why ot have the baby dedicated to the Lord or blessed - prayed for or whatever.
1 Peter 3:20-22 (All verses are from the New International Version)
20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[a] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
This is what I understand about baptism:
1) Noah was "saved through water". It was on "faith" that he buildt the ark - he believed Gods Word, nowhere are we told not that he put human reason to it or questioned God at His Word.
2) "Water symbolizes baptism"not "baptism symbolizes faith"
3) "baptism that now saves you" Is a one way covenent (promise) from God.. if you notice, no mention on how to baptise, no age requirement, no comprehension levels.
4) Does it save? Guaranteed by Christ resurrection.
Its the water connected with Gods Word. For baptism not to save would require a different resurrection.
5) The flood happen only once, Christian Baptism needs to happen only once.
6)Jesus commands " Go into the world and make disciples of all nations, [how?] by baptisingthem in the name of Father, Son, Holy Ghost
(The Trinity!)
Infants are a part of "the world". Infants need to be baptized because:
That we humans recieve our soul at conception, not at an age of accountablity. "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5 "The soul that sins is the one who will die"Ezekiel 18 :4, 20 "Wages of sin is death, but the Gift of God is eternal life" Romans 6:23
Sadly, infants die. But the gift of God must be seperate from the wage or its not a gift anymore. Wages are earned, Gods grace is not. Baptism is God doing something for us.
When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these." Mark 10:14
God's peace!
Last edited by twin.spin; 01-16-2008 at 02:15 PM..
Reason: typing error
I voted for you, bt! It was a hard choice between that and tacos, but I just ate lunch, so that helped to swing my vote!
Anyway, I believe it is wrong to believe that there is any salvation in infant baptism. As far as churches "dedicating" infants to the Lord, I suppose there's nothing wrong with that if done in the right spirit. We do want our children to follow Christ. But I believe that a biblical baptism is upon the confession of our faith in God.
Baptism is one of God's gifts to us, along the same lines . It is one of his means of grace used by God to create or strengthen faith.
Infants can have faith--in fact, they have little else. Their entire existence is dependent on faith--faith in others to provide food, shelter, and comfort.
"Yet You brought me out of the womb, You made me trust in You even at my mother's breast" Psalm 22:9.
The word used in the Bible when Jesus says "Suffer the little children to come to me, and forbid them not" is "paidia" which while usually translated as "little children" more specifically refers to babies.
One thing important to understand is that the majority of churches that believe in infant baptism also believe that people can fall away. Just as in the parable of the sower, the seed is there but either receives no water or is choked away. Anybody who says "Well, I was baptized, so I can do whatever I want and I'm good to go" is in horrible error--in the same way that a person who prayed the "sinner's prayer" and thinks that they can do the same.
I thought that Jesus was sent here to earth partly to set down an example of how to live your life, therefore making you a christian.
When he was a child, why was he not baptized then? Why did it wait until he was an adult AND why was he immersed rather then sprinkled as so many churches are fond of doing now?
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Bigthirsty....way better than tacos!
God's peace!
